MD83 Visual Approach Profile
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MD83 Visual Approach Profile
I've been invited to a meeting at the CAA in my country with regards to a landing of an MD83 in the wrong airport with the purpose of discussing messures of prevention...., I have my speech almost ready but haven't found on line the profiles for the visual approach of the MD80's or B717....! Would anyone be so kind as to send it to me please? Or a link to where I can get it?
Thank you
Ps: I wasn't part of the crew envolved in the incident.....!
Thank you
Ps: I wasn't part of the crew envolved in the incident.....!
Last edited by The Dominican; 2nd Jun 2016 at 22:58.
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300ft above the airport for every nautical mile track distance (like every other jet transport)?
please explain the navigation systems in use on your a/c at the time
Guys...., not a complicated question....., the visual approach profile depicted on the manual.
Thank you!
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Well it's an old bird Capt. Bloggs....! LOL! I know what you mean but it is not the purpose to have A/C specific up to date information..., just to show the parameters for visual approaches..., for a while now ATC it's been extending or allowing for the downwind to be extended well beyond the ATZ and even for the crews to lose sight of the airport while extending the downwind, one of the parameters for visual approaches is that the crew maintains the airport in sight.
It's one of those things where they found the easiest way out...., the crew is guilty and they should hang....! Well..., I believe that both the company's training (not giving them proper training of airport specific data) and ATC by not reassuming vectors after they ventured over 7 miles on downwind also were factors that contributed to this.
It's probably not going to do any good..., but I've picked fights that I knew that I would lose before
It's one of those things where they found the easiest way out...., the crew is guilty and they should hang....! Well..., I believe that both the company's training (not giving them proper training of airport specific data) and ATC by not reassuming vectors after they ventured over 7 miles on downwind also were factors that contributed to this.
It's probably not going to do any good..., but I've picked fights that I knew that I would lose before
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Thanks Dominican. We are a little more clearer now; because your opening question stated
"with regards to a landing of an MD83 in the wrong airport with the purpose of discussing messures of prevention...."
hence my question about what navigation systems are on the a/c. If you land at the wrong airport it might not be due to bad visual approaches.
The issue with visual approaches:
1. The pilots request it.
2. They must have the airfield and its surrounding terrain in sight, and ascertain their flight path to landing will remain clear of cloud and be such that they can keep the airfield/runway in sight at all times.
3. ATC is now no longer responsible for terrain or traffic avoidance.
So, if they ventured too far downwind ATC might advise/ask if they needed any help, or not. The crew had declared they had taken over responsibility for navigation and terrain avoidance. 320'/nm is 3 degrees, but that relates only to straight in finals. Much would depend if they were making a descending circuit via downwind, base and onto finals. They could then be descending at a steeper or flatter angle. It is all a matter of judgement and would depend on nav aids available, like DME or a Fix page in FMC. Mk.1 eyeball would be primary. However, if they were 7nm downwind it is almost certain they did not have the runway insight for turning base. It can be that some airfields have prescribed tracks to help guide you onto finals.
If the crew are flying a level downwind at circuit height, and correct speed, it should be easier to turn base and timing can be used to help. The airfield environment would be insight at all times, and the runway threshold would come back into view halfway round the turn onto base. If they were screaming downwind, then indeed, they need distance to slow down.
A little more detail of the incident would help us be helpful to you.
"with regards to a landing of an MD83 in the wrong airport with the purpose of discussing messures of prevention...."
hence my question about what navigation systems are on the a/c. If you land at the wrong airport it might not be due to bad visual approaches.
The issue with visual approaches:
1. The pilots request it.
2. They must have the airfield and its surrounding terrain in sight, and ascertain their flight path to landing will remain clear of cloud and be such that they can keep the airfield/runway in sight at all times.
3. ATC is now no longer responsible for terrain or traffic avoidance.
So, if they ventured too far downwind ATC might advise/ask if they needed any help, or not. The crew had declared they had taken over responsibility for navigation and terrain avoidance. 320'/nm is 3 degrees, but that relates only to straight in finals. Much would depend if they were making a descending circuit via downwind, base and onto finals. They could then be descending at a steeper or flatter angle. It is all a matter of judgement and would depend on nav aids available, like DME or a Fix page in FMC. Mk.1 eyeball would be primary. However, if they were 7nm downwind it is almost certain they did not have the runway insight for turning base. It can be that some airfields have prescribed tracks to help guide you onto finals.
If the crew are flying a level downwind at circuit height, and correct speed, it should be easier to turn base and timing can be used to help. The airfield environment would be insight at all times, and the runway threshold would come back into view halfway round the turn onto base. If they were screaming downwind, then indeed, they need distance to slow down.
A little more detail of the incident would help us be helpful to you.
Last edited by RAT 5; 3rd Jun 2016 at 11:14.
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Thanks Rat 5....., I apologize for the confusion since I wasn't clear enough...!
You are quite correct on your summary...., I'm not looking to absolve the crew, evidently they messed up but again and again the crew is hang out to dry while others also bare some responsibility...., the company didn't give the proper training nor were they given a ground school of special airport. Also ATC failed them in my view....!
Well..., thanks for your comments!
You are quite correct on your summary...., I'm not looking to absolve the crew, evidently they messed up but again and again the crew is hang out to dry while others also bare some responsibility...., the company didn't give the proper training nor were they given a ground school of special airport. Also ATC failed them in my view....!
Well..., thanks for your comments!
