Extended Overwater Operations
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Extended Overwater Operations
Dear All,
I'm flying an ATR 72-500, and according the MEL in certain cases Extended Overwater Operations are prohibited but actually I never found a definition of "extended overwater operations " in both manuals and EASA rules.
Since the MEL involved are usually the one regarding pressurization and landing gear extended operations I think it's something referred to aircraft ditching capabilities: does anyone know which is the limitation and where to find a reference about it?
Thank you!
I'm flying an ATR 72-500, and according the MEL in certain cases Extended Overwater Operations are prohibited but actually I never found a definition of "extended overwater operations " in both manuals and EASA rules.
Since the MEL involved are usually the one regarding pressurization and landing gear extended operations I think it's something referred to aircraft ditching capabilities: does anyone know which is the limitation and where to find a reference about it?
Thank you!
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US definitions:
Over water is defined as flying more than 50 NM from a shoreline. If your aircraft is not over water equipped and certified you can not fly outside of this limit.
If your aircraft is overwater equipped and certified you can fly out side this limit but must not fly more than 1 hour flight time away from a suitable airport. This is an ETOPS limit.
If your aircraft is over water certified and ETOPS certified you can pretty much do anything.
Our company has special authorized extended overwater operations authorization by the FAA. For example we can extend the flight of our non-overwater aircraft to 100 or 162 NM from the shoreline in some areas, with restrictions. This may be what the MEL is referring to. Your MEL may be generic, some operators my have extended overwater authorization on the ATR72-500.
Take care.
Over water is defined as flying more than 50 NM from a shoreline. If your aircraft is not over water equipped and certified you can not fly outside of this limit.
If your aircraft is overwater equipped and certified you can fly out side this limit but must not fly more than 1 hour flight time away from a suitable airport. This is an ETOPS limit.
If your aircraft is over water certified and ETOPS certified you can pretty much do anything.
Our company has special authorized extended overwater operations authorization by the FAA. For example we can extend the flight of our non-overwater aircraft to 100 or 162 NM from the shoreline in some areas, with restrictions. This may be what the MEL is referring to. Your MEL may be generic, some operators my have extended overwater authorization on the ATR72-500.
Take care.
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It also could be a simple as not having life rafts. One company I worked for had about half of the single aisle aircraft equipped with rafts, the others were placarded for extended overwater not authorized.
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FAA one (1) hour away from shoreline is ETOPS? Are you sure? For which operations part? 91/135?? Or only for 121?
"For example, an airplane has a calculated non-ETOPS area of 1200 NM (180 minutes [3 hours] x 400 knots =1200 NM). The certificate holder has previously made the ETOPS area calculation outlined in Step 1 and has determined the non-ETOPS area for that airplane. Based on that non-ETOPS area, it is determined that a hypothetical trip from Los Angeles, CA (KLAX) to Maui, HI (PHOG) would remain within the previously calculated non-ETOPS area."
http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/info/all_infos/media/2008/135ETOPS.pdf
"For example, an airplane has a calculated non-ETOPS area of 1200 NM (180 minutes [3 hours] x 400 knots =1200 NM). The certificate holder has previously made the ETOPS area calculation outlined in Step 1 and has determined the non-ETOPS area for that airplane. Based on that non-ETOPS area, it is determined that a hypothetical trip from Los Angeles, CA (KLAX) to Maui, HI (PHOG) would remain within the previously calculated non-ETOPS area."
http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/info/all_infos/media/2008/135ETOPS.pdf
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Part 121.
FAR Section 121.161
Operating under part 121, to remain non ETOPS, a TWO engine aircraft must not operate outside of 1 hour (430 NM for the 319/320) of a suitable airport (not shoreline - shoreline determines over water criteria - ETOPS and overwater are two separate issues.)
(OP was regarding a two engine airplane)
An aircraft with more than two engines can operate up to 180 minutes from a suitable airport and remain non-ETOPS.
Take care.
FAR Section 121.161
Operating under part 121, to remain non ETOPS, a TWO engine aircraft must not operate outside of 1 hour (430 NM for the 319/320) of a suitable airport (not shoreline - shoreline determines over water criteria - ETOPS and overwater are two separate issues.)
(OP was regarding a two engine airplane)
An aircraft with more than two engines can operate up to 180 minutes from a suitable airport and remain non-ETOPS.
Take care.
Last edited by CaptainMongo; 17th Apr 2016 at 14:05. Reason: Added more than 2 engine info
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Hi!
Many thanks for your replies!
Unluckily I am looking for the regulation in EASA that is much more difficult to find then the FAA one!
Any idea?
Ciao!
Many thanks for your replies!
Unluckily I am looking for the regulation in EASA that is much more difficult to find then the FAA one!
Any idea?
Ciao!
