WSJ: Boeing gets support for NMA; new medium-range airplane
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WSJ: Boeing gets support for NMA; new medium-range airplane
Previously called "MoM" middle of the market aircraft it seems Boeing will at one point launch a NMA, slightly larger than the 757.
Boeing has said it thinks there is sufficient demand for such an aircraft, which would fit between its single-aisle 737 and long-range 787 Dreamliner.
Boeing has said it is considering a new jet that would have 200 to 250 seats and be capable of flying around 4,800 nautical miles.
The company has been polling more than 30 possible customers, including airlines that have traditionally shied away from expensive twin-aisle aircraft like low-cost carriers.
The Bank of America analysts think a new plane would be a small, oval-shaped, twin-aisle aircraft with seven economy-class seats across the cabin to quickly board and deplane passengers.
Boeing Gets Support for New Midrange Jetliner - WSJ
Leeham News and Comment has also been reporting and making estimations about this future project:
Boeing has said it thinks there is sufficient demand for such an aircraft, which would fit between its single-aisle 737 and long-range 787 Dreamliner.
Boeing has said it is considering a new jet that would have 200 to 250 seats and be capable of flying around 4,800 nautical miles.
The company has been polling more than 30 possible customers, including airlines that have traditionally shied away from expensive twin-aisle aircraft like low-cost carriers.
The Bank of America analysts think a new plane would be a small, oval-shaped, twin-aisle aircraft with seven economy-class seats across the cabin to quickly board and deplane passengers.
Boeing Gets Support for New Midrange Jetliner - WSJ
Leeham News and Comment has also been reporting and making estimations about this future project:
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Boeing Middle of the Market Development, Continued
In Q4 2015, Q1 2016 we saw a lot of activity around the possible launch of a new middle of the market aircraft. Conner Boeing Aircraft CEO even stated he wants a plan this year. Which would probably mean a Boeing aircraft around 2023. Working names sofar are MoM, NMA, 797 and even a rewinged 737-10X is considered.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-end-y-421802/
During the last few weeks however, the tide seems to be turning. One of the reason probably is Airbus making more sales and the 737 MAX prospects list for Boeing is shrinking, as are its margins.
A New MOM Aircraft? It?s the Economics, Stupid | Commercial Aviation content from Aviation Week
This will probably lead to Boeing looking for a combined 737 successor / MoM solution. In my opinion it is impossible to compete effectively for 170 seats 1000NM as well as 240 4000NM with the same wing / engine combination. Compromises would hurt efficiency in both segments.
A common fuselage might however work. While a single aisle might be impractical for short 240 seat flights (boarding/de boarding) and twin aisle e.g. 2-3-2 might make the aircraft to big/ heavy to compete with e.g. a A321 NEO an in between fuselage, 1.5 aisles, could cover both requirements.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-end-y-421802/
During the last few weeks however, the tide seems to be turning. One of the reason probably is Airbus making more sales and the 737 MAX prospects list for Boeing is shrinking, as are its margins.
A New MOM Aircraft? It?s the Economics, Stupid | Commercial Aviation content from Aviation Week
This will probably lead to Boeing looking for a combined 737 successor / MoM solution. In my opinion it is impossible to compete effectively for 170 seats 1000NM as well as 240 4000NM with the same wing / engine combination. Compromises would hurt efficiency in both segments.
A common fuselage might however work. While a single aisle might be impractical for short 240 seat flights (boarding/de boarding) and twin aisle e.g. 2-3-2 might make the aircraft to big/ heavy to compete with e.g. a A321 NEO an in between fuselage, 1.5 aisles, could cover both requirements.
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Funny that you mention cross sections & patents. Once (July 2011) I posted a large circular two deck configuration, trading cargo for seats.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z160/keesje_pics/extrawide10abreasttwindeckWB80mlongcrosssection.jpg
What a laugh.
. 2 years later (Jul 30, 2013) Boeing files a brilliant patent: http://www.google.com/patents/US20130306793. I got a very formal answer..
2007"ECOLINER". 2012: Boeing patents design for double-decker, mid-wing jet - seattlepi.com
2006 A320NEO: Proposing the A320 enhanced performance — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net
2009 777X: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine — Tech Ops Forum | Airliners.net
Often we see the Pavlov "who do you think..." reactions.
I might be wrong many times & of course it's all far more complicated. After decades you find out sometimes your ideas are off / not new. On other occasions you find they're not. Even more people jump on you. For many it just takes lots of time to recognize. Often (drilled to be) procedural types. To make money, you just ignore / move on
I won't post a Statler & Waldorf here
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z160/keesje_pics/extrawide10abreasttwindeckWB80mlongcrosssection.jpg
What a laugh.
. 2 years later (Jul 30, 2013) Boeing files a brilliant patent: http://www.google.com/patents/US20130306793. I got a very formal answer.. 2007"ECOLINER". 2012: Boeing patents design for double-decker, mid-wing jet - seattlepi.com
2006 A320NEO: Proposing the A320 enhanced performance — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net
2009 777X: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine — Tech Ops Forum | Airliners.net
Often we see the Pavlov "who do you think..." reactions.
I might be wrong many times & of course it's all far more complicated. After decades you find out sometimes your ideas are off / not new. On other occasions you find they're not. Even more people jump on you. For many it just takes lots of time to recognize. Often (drilled to be) procedural types. To make money, you just ignore / move on
I won't post a Statler & Waldorf here
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Violator March 1st 2013 on long range NEO's: "How many times do you have to be told that there is no market for the aircraft you're talking about "
http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/50898...ay-lenght.html reply #17
In 2015 Airbus launches the A321LR & Boeing sees a big MoM market.
Airbus Sees 1,000-Aircraft Market For A321LR | Commercial Aviation content from Aviation Week, Boeing Could Sell ?Thousands? of New Midsize Airplanes | Dubai Air Show 2015 content from Aviation Week
Predicting fleet requirements just isn't your thing. For the rest you seem into personal attacks, aggressive in your language, using words like daft, half-baked, simplistic. Maybe that's normal for you?
http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/50898...ay-lenght.html reply #17
In 2015 Airbus launches the A321LR & Boeing sees a big MoM market.
Airbus Sees 1,000-Aircraft Market For A321LR | Commercial Aviation content from Aviation Week, Boeing Could Sell ?Thousands? of New Midsize Airplanes | Dubai Air Show 2015 content from Aviation Week
Predicting fleet requirements just isn't your thing. For the rest you seem into personal attacks, aggressive in your language, using words like daft, half-baked, simplistic. Maybe that's normal for you?
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twistedenginestarter, Aisles are generally 18-20 inch wide, dependent on how you measure. Twin aisles require double that in cabin width / fuselage cross section. A wide, single "1.5" ~30 inch wide aisle has some of the advantages of twin aisles;
- People are able to pass each other, instead of blocking each other, shortening (de)boarding times and waiting lines.
- For the larger NB segment (>170 seats) the larger cross section offers structural efficiency for the longer fuselages (753 & A346 had issues)
- It lowers the claustrophobic experience on longer MoM like flights (up to 9 hours). People dislike the TATL 757s because of it.
- It avoids the 2-3-2 cabins weight that make the associated cost per unit uncompetitive with single aisles.
- It offers more cabin options for narrow body premium cabins like introduced by Delta, JetBlue and American these days. And real big luggage bins, facilitating more people handling their own.
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If anyone ever thought to ask passengers what they would like, the answer would be 2-2-2. Twin aisles, no middle seats. Only requires a fuselage 20 inches wider than current NB.
It's really an excellent salad
Boeing won't do anything until they have absolutely no choice. When they do; it will be too late, uncomfortable, full of 737 parts, outsourced, the product of a union purge and likely to burst into flame. They don't call them "lazy Boeing" for nothing
Boeing won't do anything until they have absolutely no choice. When they do; it will be too late, uncomfortable, full of 737 parts, outsourced, the product of a union purge and likely to burst into flame. They don't call them "lazy Boeing" for nothing
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JPJP, it seems Boeing is going to have to make some choices. The MAX is loosing out to the NEO. Only stick to the plan when it's a good plan. Leeham News & Comment (Seattle based Aerospace Consultancy) is one of the first observing / reporting what no one wants to hear.
https://leehamnews.com/2016/04/04/bo...refocus-goals/
https://leehamnews.com/2016/04/04/bo...refocus-goals/
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What Boeing needs to do is start planning a clean-slate 737 replacement design. The market for the size is clearly there and all they have been doing for the past 25 years is putting LCD screens in the cockpit and more powerful engines under the wing.
