737 airspeed unreliable QRH

[Capn Bloggs]

Fuel Flow's the best thrust-setter. Same fuel flow gives almost the same IAS, regardless of level as well as same deck angle. I don't fly the 777, but 75% N1 at high alt seems very low!

The industry research and feedback is very good and often better than the conventional ATPL course and having talked to LTCs training these guys they have often said that the quality is higher than that of an ATPL student.

Well, improve the ATPL course!

[nick14]

Why? If they have something that works well and has taken 30+ years work then why ditch it for an improved ATPL course just because some people don't like how many hours a pilot has done?

The MPL is everything the ATPL should have been.

[JammedStab]

Originally Posted by BARKINGMAD

"How about a few out there on this thread actually try this at TOD and then post back on this thread what the result was. Reduce power, pitch up slowly to avoid a climb and then get back to us. Try for flights below at and above optimum. It is deemed to be safe so there should be no issues. It will be interesting to hear the results."


And if something out of the ordinary occurs "it will be interesting to hear" the subsequent interview with fleet/flight manager(s)!!

I have been assured that it is safe so why not try it. If it is good enough for those without proper airspeed indications, it shouldn't be a problem for those with proper airspeed indications. All of a sudden it seems that there is a hesitancy to do this safe maneuver. Perhaps for good reason, which is why I questioned reducing thrust and increasing pitch in the first place.

[nick14]

Because it is a procedure to be used to ensure safe flight in a non normal situation, not to be trialed by line pilots with passengers on board.

Why not try anything in the FCTM/QRH if you have that attitude? The place to try these things out is in the simulator.

[JammedStab]

Originally Posted by nick14

Because it is a procedure to be used to ensure safe flight in a non normal situation, not to be trialed by line pilots with passengers on board.

Why not try anything in the FCTM/QRH if you have that attitude? The place to try these things out is in the simulator.

Actually, I don't have that attitude. I wouldn't dream of reducing thrust and pitching up while in cruise. I just wanted to point out the interesting reality of being told how a maneuver is deemed to be quite safe that it can be done safely without even an ASI yet is something one dares not attempt when airspeed indications are normal due to the potential consequences.

My suggestion to the manufacturer would be to make the checklist slightly more complicated by stating that if at a pitch and power setting that has been proven to be safe while in level flight(or at least in cruise), maintain that pitch and power setting(or some similar well thought out procedure) instead of trying to match up a procedure that works at lower levels to cruise flight. I think you will find that most pilots would do this while in cruise anyways. At least I hope so.

[nick14]

It does work in the cruise, that's the point. All altitudes and weights the speed will be safe. I have tried it at the extremes of the envelope and it works.

[Capt Turbo]

SIM results.

Since AF 447 I have done the "hi altitude confusion" scenario with a few dozens wide body Airbus crews, lately with SFOs/Cruise capts at the controls.
Scary stuff: When brought into the situation unprepared, only a few have managed to control it, the majority departed into an unrecoverable aircraft state.

The main reason is CONFUSION & FALSE WARNINGS in combination with no default plan. Events develop surprisingly fast, too fast for any QRH study. Regrettably, the AB QRH/memory items deal with the low altitude scenario, not the hi altitude (it is there, but not as immidiate action and is hidden as small print in a table).

Several posts here mention basic airmanship as a mantra. For those of us who have done tail slides in a F-104 or Mirage, airmanship is in the veines, but there are a lot of pilots out there - especially in new airlines in the 3rd world - for whome anything but computerized flight in the middle of the envelope is a grey area. Sad, yes, but a fact of our industry as it is today.

Realising this, Boing have come up with this life saving, simple, easy to memorise procedure. When I teach my boyz this, they survive; when not, they die. Simple fact...

So I either tell my various CEOs to allocate the extra money to hire only proficient, competent aviators (will not happen, of course) or I teach something that works for everyone. I wish AB will soon publish something similar to Boing. Not perfect, but far better than what we have today.

Turbo.
PS: For the smart a***s only: Your 0-wind GPS GS is 500 knots at GPS altitude 40.000'. What is your IAS? (Knowing that can save your day, too.)

[JammedStab]

Originally Posted by Capt Turbo

So I either tell my various CEOs to allocate the extra money to hire only proficient, competent aviators (will not happen, of course) or I teach something that works for everyone. I wish AB will soon publish something similar to Boing. Not perfect, but far better than what we have today.

I suppose the overall reality of aviation dictates this procedure publication by the manufacturer. Makes the questions on this subject prior to a sim check easy to answer now.

Thanks

[nick14]

Tailslides in a fighter jet have very little to do with the operation of a passenger jet. You could say that just because I haven't flown anything other than Boeing jets I shouldn't have been hired. I have no other experience but I seem to do alright.

Wasn't the air Asia captain an ex fighter pilot?

[B737900er]

Nick - Fighter pilots are the best pilots in the world, Didn't you watch the 1985 cult classic 'Top Gun'?

Whats more entertaining is ex military running a civil airline - Behind the times, with a hint of cluelessness.

Now back on topic.