Flight control check a320
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Flight control check a320
I folks,
A training captain told me that Airbus wants to do the flight control check in the exact order as written in the fctm. Is there any reason why?
A training captain told me that Airbus wants to do the flight control check in the exact order as written in the fctm. Is there any reason why?
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I suspect (s)he mean full up full down neutral, full left full right neutral, rudders.. full left full right neutral.
To answer that, our company recommends random direction/order of check so it isn't just 'mouth music'. The only stipulation being hold the controls on the stops for a few seconds to allow self diagnosis of problems by the FCCs (not just control direction check).
To answer that, our company recommends random direction/order of check so it isn't just 'mouth music'. The only stipulation being hold the controls on the stops for a few seconds to allow self diagnosis of problems by the FCCs (not just control direction check).
My airline in OZ insists on doing the flight control check EXACTLY as published in the FCOM. Having flown elsewhere in other airlines that didn't enforce this I can say doing it the same way every single time is terrible for SA. I find myself sometimes just saying the words without paying 100% attention to the check, at least when you don't know how it is going to be carried out you do have to pay attention.
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We do the flight control in the exact order, however without verbal confirmation, it is basically a silent check. But we seem to use a much more silent version of the SOPs than the OEM procedures. No FMA callouts for example, and no checklists from after start until parking. On A319/A320 i confirm the aileron by a check out of the window as well, on the A321 it is kinda hard to see though.
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Denti
When you do things silently there is no guarantee it is being done. No FMA call out? How do you know whether it is checked at all? There are at least three incidents during go around because FMA was to be checked after gear up according these airlines. This is definitely not safe and is against Airbus philosophy.
When you do things silently there is no guarantee it is being done. No FMA call out? How do you know whether it is checked at all? There are at least three incidents during go around because FMA was to be checked after gear up according these airlines. This is definitely not safe and is against Airbus philosophy.
My employer wants it done in the stated order, I believe EasyJet do it randomly for the reasons given above.
Be careful of holding the side stick over for too long, I managed to trigger an ECAM Aileron servo fault by doing that.
Be careful of holding the side stick over for too long, I managed to trigger an ECAM Aileron servo fault by doing that.
Probably because there was a fault! The control systems go through self diagnostics which take 2.8 seconds, which is why some A procedures have you hold full deflection for a minimum of three seconds.
My company like the 'mouth music' as per the FCOM because that's the was we work and airmanship/common sense are not required these days
. Not my choice - for reasons stated.
My company like the 'mouth music' as per the FCOM because that's the was we work and airmanship/common sense are not required these days
. Not my choice - for reasons stated.
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As a trainer, he should clarify this, since it is nowhere written in what order you have to do the flight control check. (The FCOM mentions the call-outs to be made, but to me that doesn't mean that it has to be in that order.)
Maybe that training captain knows more than us, or he's just making things up by wrongly interpreting the FCOM. (Like so many instructors at my company who, without reasoning, make up some procedure from what they have read somewhere. Common sense is becoming something rare in aviation.)
Personally, I'm in favor of doing it randomly for the reason already mentioned in this thread.
But in the 3 companies I've worked for, I've only seen 1 or 2 pilots doing it randomly. Probably because in all 3 companies there are instructors who tell everybody that it always has to be in the same order as mentioned in the FCOM.
A captain in the first company I've worked for, told me that he once performed the flight control check in a random order with an instructor in the right seat. The instructor started his "full up, full down, ..." routine without properly checking the deflection. He was surprised when the captain told him to try again and have a better look. Point proven!
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A training captain told me that Airbus wants to do the flight control check in the exact order as written in the fctm. Is there any reason why?
2x A320 (AFIK) series have had (serious) issues post takeoff due inadequate checks. The first led to a (temporary) requirement to hold full control for 3s (the issue would have been alerted had they done so), the second required great airmanship after takeoff that could have been prevented by the correct checks IIRC?
Key to me is do the checks slowly (don't bang the control surfaces) and meticulously. Only read out "Left" etc. when you are sure - your (and other) lives depend on it, esp 1st flight of the day / post maint. I find my colleagues in a rush to complete it, and have often started to return the control before I speak... it takes time to check my PFD, the control page, the other PFD and they all correlate with where I check their sidestick is being held.
OTT? Probably... but at least 2 crews would have been less embarrassed had they done it that way
i disagree John Smith. On the ground the PFD displays the sidestick order indication which should be in agreement with the direction the surfaces are moving in
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/806.pdf BFU report on a LH A320 with control problems
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/806.pdf BFU report on a LH A320 with control problems
Last edited by tubby linton; 14th Mar 2015 at 23:38.
At a convenient stage, before or during taxi, and before arming the autobrake, the PF silently applies full longitudinal and lateral sidestick deflection. On the F/CTL page, the PNF checks and calls out full travel of elevators and ailerons, and correct deflection and retraction of spoilers. As each full travel/neutral position is reached, the PNF calls out:
"Full up, full down, neutral"
"Full left, full right, neutral"
The PF silently checks that the PNF calls are in accordance with the sidestick order. -FCTM
The note referred to by John Smith implies ,imho ,that if a spoiler for example has failed the position of the surface cannot be deduced from the sidestick order symbol, however the direction the stick has been moved, and the order symbol should be in agreement with the surface deflection.
"Full up, full down, neutral"
"Full left, full right, neutral"
The PF silently checks that the PNF calls are in accordance with the sidestick order. -FCTM
The note referred to by John Smith implies ,imho ,that if a spoiler for example has failed the position of the surface cannot be deduced from the sidestick order symbol, however the direction the stick has been moved, and the order symbol should be in agreement with the surface deflection.
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john_smith and Denti
You are correct about flight control check but not correct in suggesting FMA call out unnecessary. Silent check of FMA is unsafe. As I mentioned before there have been three incidents due to improper observance of FMA during GA. They could have been accidents. Air blue committed many sins but the last straw that caused the fatal crash was because Capt. kept dialling in NAV mode without checking FMA and when the HDG curser came to other side he realised he was in NAV and pulled HDG to cause the aircraft to turn shorter way into the hill.
Below is from Performance and Operations conference 2011.
QUESTION 6 – BRITISH AIRWAYS
Prioritization of FMA calls versus “positive climb” and “gear up”?
AIRBUS ANSWER
The FMA is the “heart and soul” of the aircraft and should be checked first when changes of guidance are done. If a go- around is performed with AP ON, it is the only way to check that the guidance will perform a go-around with specific guidance (SRS). The call “positive climb and gear up” is to check that the aircraft is climbing and thus drag can be reduced to increase the climb performance.
You are correct about flight control check but not correct in suggesting FMA call out unnecessary. Silent check of FMA is unsafe. As I mentioned before there have been three incidents due to improper observance of FMA during GA. They could have been accidents. Air blue committed many sins but the last straw that caused the fatal crash was because Capt. kept dialling in NAV mode without checking FMA and when the HDG curser came to other side he realised he was in NAV and pulled HDG to cause the aircraft to turn shorter way into the hill.
Below is from Performance and Operations conference 2011.
QUESTION 6 – BRITISH AIRWAYS
Prioritization of FMA calls versus “positive climb” and “gear up”?
AIRBUS ANSWER
The FMA is the “heart and soul” of the aircraft and should be checked first when changes of guidance are done. If a go- around is performed with AP ON, it is the only way to check that the guidance will perform a go-around with specific guidance (SRS). The call “positive climb and gear up” is to check that the aircraft is climbing and thus drag can be reduced to increase the climb performance.
Last edited by vilas; 15th Mar 2015 at 04:13. Reason: Additions
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In my company like most airlines, any change of FMA must be called and the PNF must acknowledge by a verbal "check". But that check from the PNF is irrelevant cause we all know sometimes the PNF will call "check" and not actually look at it. xD
I personally think that the less we talk the best it is in the cockpit and you feel less fatigue. When I flew single crew I was not talking loud it does not mean I was not doing my job properly. Same as in an Airbus, I don't feel the need for the PF to read it loud the FMA for me to actually check the FMA. We have been trained to monitor and understand it all the time isn't it? Like a captain told me once:"Never keep your eyes away from the FMA more than 5s" But well, I'm not an expert and if reading the FMA loud has been proven safer, then well let's continue this way then.
I personally think that the less we talk the best it is in the cockpit and you feel less fatigue. When I flew single crew I was not talking loud it does not mean I was not doing my job properly. Same as in an Airbus, I don't feel the need for the PF to read it loud the FMA for me to actually check the FMA. We have been trained to monitor and understand it all the time isn't it? Like a captain told me once:"Never keep your eyes away from the FMA more than 5s" But well, I'm not an expert and if reading the FMA loud has been proven safer, then well let's continue this way then.
Last edited by pineteam; 15th Mar 2015 at 06:14. Reason: words missing
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Safety First, The Airbus Safety Magazine have two good articles on the flight control check.
Issues Jan 2005 and July 2008 which can be viewed by downloading the Safety First App.
Both articles stress the importance of a proper flight control check. I for one will stick with the manufaturers recommendation, guarding against complacency especially on the fourth leg of the day.
Issues Jan 2005 and July 2008 which can be viewed by downloading the Safety First App.
Both articles stress the importance of a proper flight control check. I for one will stick with the manufaturers recommendation, guarding against complacency especially on the fourth leg of the day.
How can the pnf tell that the sidestick has been moved in the same direction as the controls are moving in as the one manipulating the stick doesn't actually say anything during the check, unless the resultant movement is not in agreement?