Unrested for flight, or take a sleeping pill?
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Unrested for flight, or take a sleeping pill?
I find that since majority of the users are very active on this side of the forum, and many are very experienced in the industry, it would be a good place to ask this question.
Like many, I struggle with sleep. Oddly enough, I prefer flying all night, I hate waking up early, and actually am unable to sleep early at night even when I am tired.
Which is healthier for the body? To get a few hours of sleep, wake up early being not well rested, complete my flight and catch up on sleep the following night? OR to take a low dose of a sleeping pill or equivalent, and sleep well that night for the early morning flight?
Your opinions and advice are much appreciated.
Thank guys
Like many, I struggle with sleep. Oddly enough, I prefer flying all night, I hate waking up early, and actually am unable to sleep early at night even when I am tired.
Which is healthier for the body? To get a few hours of sleep, wake up early being not well rested, complete my flight and catch up on sleep the following night? OR to take a low dose of a sleeping pill or equivalent, and sleep well that night for the early morning flight?
Your opinions and advice are much appreciated.
Thank guys
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Melatonine helps me and my biorithm from time to time.
Another good sleeping aid is Unisom, which I only take when desperate for sleep and when commercially positioning long haul.
But the best method to fall asleep is still...a good portion of sex
( or fall asleep reading the FOM part A
)
Another good sleeping aid is Unisom, which I only take when desperate for sleep and when commercially positioning long haul.
But the best method to fall asleep is still...a good portion of sex
( or fall asleep reading the FOM part A
)
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To be honest, Part A is probably the best sleeping aid, if not some light workout about an hour before sleep.
If i cannot sleep enough without pills i have to call in as unfit to fly next morning, of course that could lead to problems further down the line if i do it every early reporting day. However i cannot be fired for that in my company.
If i cannot sleep enough without pills i have to call in as unfit to fly next morning, of course that could lead to problems further down the line if i do it every early reporting day. However i cannot be fired for that in my company.
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Thanks all for the responses.
Despegue,
I am actually waiting for the next stock of Melatonine from GNC, I am considering giving it a shot.
Denti,
I've had this problem since I can remember.
It is impossible for me to sleep early at night unless I have a fixed routine of doing it for days.
I am just trying to figure out which method would be healthier for the body.
Despegue,
I am actually waiting for the next stock of Melatonine from GNC, I am considering giving it a shot.
Denti,
I've had this problem since I can remember.
It is impossible for me to sleep early at night unless I have a fixed routine of doing it for days.
I am just trying to figure out which method would be healthier for the body.
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When people can't sleep they may lie there getting more and more agitated by the fact they are not sleeping. It might help to know that lying down in a cool, darkened, quiet room, resting can be 75% as good as sleep, so it doesn't do to get hung up on not sleeping if you are in bed, mentally relax and you may find you drop off anyway!.
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This may sound a bit, well, punk, but sometimes I use one of the many meditation apps. There's one that allows you to choose between a "day-time sleep" (30 mins) and a night time sleep which is longer.
Even when I am not overly tired, 30 mins of the meditation app helps me feel better.
Even when I am not overly tired, 30 mins of the meditation app helps me feel better.
Bottums Up
mentally relax and you may find you drop off anyway!.
TMy DAME was quite happy to prescribe Stilnox, saying it's not as good as real (natural) sleep but better than no sleep.
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I also have a really hard time going to bed early. Hot bath, big glass of water, then I read the economist. Fascinating, yet soothingly sleep inducing. Works 80% of the time.
I have found Melatonin to be very helpful, especially when dealing with big time zone changes.
The last thing I will do at my age is a 'large glass of water' before bed, unless I want to spend most of the night (or day) going to the bathroom..
The last thing I will do at my age is a 'large glass of water' before bed, unless I want to spend most of the night (or day) going to the bathroom..
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The body needs very little sleep, if any.
It's the brain that needs the sleep.
If you don't get the right sleep, you won't be thinking as well as when you do get the right sleep.
1. stay away from electronic devices as much as you can - reading from an ipad or computer can actually increase your allertness and inability to sleep by a large factor - it has to do with the images not being "precise" and the brain having to "form" the images - as oppose to reading from a book or paper
2. read a good, but not too engrossing book - light reading, but something you enjoy - but be sure it's a printed book - ebook like kindles come very very close, and can be used, but an ipad or a computer will actually excite the chemicals in your brain rather than relax them - read until you fall asleep
3. drink some warm milk, avoid alcohol or caffeine or sugary drinks
you need to calm your mind, and once you do, you'll find that you can rest your mind, even if you can't sleep.
It's the brain that needs the sleep.
If you don't get the right sleep, you won't be thinking as well as when you do get the right sleep.
1. stay away from electronic devices as much as you can - reading from an ipad or computer can actually increase your allertness and inability to sleep by a large factor - it has to do with the images not being "precise" and the brain having to "form" the images - as oppose to reading from a book or paper
2. read a good, but not too engrossing book - light reading, but something you enjoy - but be sure it's a printed book - ebook like kindles come very very close, and can be used, but an ipad or a computer will actually excite the chemicals in your brain rather than relax them - read until you fall asleep
3. drink some warm milk, avoid alcohol or caffeine or sugary drinks
you need to calm your mind, and once you do, you'll find that you can rest your mind, even if you can't sleep.
I really struggle on this front and like the original poster, 'can go all night' but an early still puts the fear of god into me!
Agree that you need to calm your mind, I think what is very important is how people aim to get their correct sleep length. For example, if you NEED 6hrs a night to be decent the next morning, don't go to bed at 6hrs -10mins as undoubtably you will toss and turn trying to get to sleep knowing straight away that you will never get the sleep you require. This will therefore make you more agitated and more alert and less likely to fall asleep.
Instead if you NEED 6hrs sleep, make sure you are in bed with the lights off (not watching tv or playing computer) at least 1 hour before your minimum cutoff, ideally more and then you have a decent period where you will not be wound up by the inability to sleep.
Agree that you need to calm your mind, I think what is very important is how people aim to get their correct sleep length. For example, if you NEED 6hrs a night to be decent the next morning, don't go to bed at 6hrs -10mins as undoubtably you will toss and turn trying to get to sleep knowing straight away that you will never get the sleep you require. This will therefore make you more agitated and more alert and less likely to fall asleep.
Instead if you NEED 6hrs sleep, make sure you are in bed with the lights off (not watching tv or playing computer) at least 1 hour before your minimum cutoff, ideally more and then you have a decent period where you will not be wound up by the inability to sleep.
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Sleep Quality
The bottom line is stuff the pills.
The problem could be one of the following:
Weight, sugar and thyroid
Excercise light, eat right!
Try a chiropractor to get rid of tension.
The problem could be one of the following:
Weight, sugar and thyroid
Excercise light, eat right!
Try a chiropractor to get rid of tension.
Involved in the tests for dormicom...surprised it was authorised by my company and when I tried 1/4 of the dose was still knackered 10 hours later.
Reverted to self hypnosis and trace inducing music...far better.
Reverted to self hypnosis and trace inducing music...far better.
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I also struggle with the same problems as the original poster since 90% of my shifts are at night. One thing that helped me is reverse the alarm clock: instead of setting the alarm clock to wake up, I set it to go to sleep. As soon as my alarm goes, I don't touch any ipad or things that can keep me alert. Otherwise I will find myself staying up later and later because I don't feel sleepy yet. A second thing that helped me is getting every bit of rest I can at nightshifts, even for 5 minutes or so, instead of going to the coffee machine or checking the emails again.
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Any kind of chemical sleep aids are prohibited at my airline. Personally, I don't miss them, they never seemed to work for me anyway. I find a nice, long walk prior to bedtime helps a lot more.
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When people can't sleep they may lie there getting more and more agitated by the fact they are not sleeping. It might help to know that lying down in a cool, darkened, quiet room, resting can be 75% as good as sleep, so it doesn't do to get hung up on not sleeping if you are in bed, mentally relax and you may find you drop off anyway!.
Concerning the lying there and not falling asleep, I had come to a conclusion that it was worth 50% sleep but maybe it is 75% sleep or varies by person.
For myself, I tend to switch to local time as much as possible wherever I go because I like to do things during my layover. Others tend to stay in home time. On the other hand, there can be flights that are just overnights with no layover followed by day flying30 hours later.
Usually, I try to have a plan on what sleep to do. If I am at base with a normal sleep pattern and have a 930 pm show, I will try to wake up very early, that morning so that I will intentionally be tired at some point in late afternoon and go to sleep around 530. Then I hopefully get near 4 hours sleep. The I count on a rest during the flight which will usually be at least 2.5 hours. Sometime, I come back to base with a 5 AM arrival and will have to switch back to local day flying. Try to get 2-3 hours max sleep using the alarm. Then be up the rest of the day so once again, I will ideally be tired that night.
Frequently, I will be getting my sleep while on the road in two portions for the day.
As a backup, I always have a 5 hour energy drink with me ready for consumption if required. Of course it doesn't always work. I am not a coffee drinker so it may have more effect on me.
A 30 minute controlled rest on the flight deck power nap can do wonders as well.
To be honest, I think the short haul stuff where you can't get a power nap could be much tougher.
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As instructor I did see many unwaited students' mistakes and allways searched what was wrong that day, that flight : mostly
- not correct sleep
- use of any pill said to have no counter-effect .
Forget pills definitively. If you are tired inform your airline you are not fit and don't fly.
Learn how much sleep YOU need : start during holidays; go to bed when you feel asleep, no alarm, and watch at which time you wake up. Stand up and start your day. You will discover that during your sleep you may have some half wake-up, the next day you remember you listened the church or wrote a word on a paper, aso but felt asleep again easily. You will see that that sleep part has a specific duration (for me it is around 1½ hour, for other it will be 2 hours). Then you will discover that your real wake-up needs a round number of such cycles or a bit more. For me it happens after three cycles around five hours. That is my normal sleep time. Many people need around 7 hours.
If I need to have a shorter sleep it will be 3 hours : NEVER cut any short cycle with an alarm or otherwise.
If a was very tired by the day, or when I was working by night the whole week (as freightdog) I will need 7 hours (4 short cycles).
Observe yourself. I need to sleep the two first short cycles together, and sleeping more than 7 hours destroys my whole day : I shall be like a zombie, and feel bad.
Now during work time schedules are irregular. Keep always in sight your cycles' need. Flying by night is not the same as flying by day : sleep is normally regulated by body temperature. Colder to sleep, warmer to work. Regulation of temperature is disturbed by your schedules and the outside light oscillation . Take a 10 minutes bath with decreased temperature ½°c lower than your actual body before going to sleep if it is daytime. No pill .
If you change your time zone, some days (2-3 days ) before your flight prepare your body :
- modify the schedule of your salted meals at the wanted new schedule
- go to bed (probably you will not sleep but manage a quiet life lying) to take "rest" despite it is often said that we cannot rest before to be tired : false, we may accumulate some prerest, and it is not necessfull to sleep, but stay in your bed try to "dream" (possible without to sleep! )
Sometimes demanding tasks increases the need to rest : learn and train some naps: I am able to do without alarm a 3 minutes and a 15 minutes nap.
Caffeine ? Normally it will just disturb your brain work ! If you like coffee drink only the best : Arabica at regular times.
All that works if you are fit without pathology which is normally the case for pilots.
Overall forget pills when you are a flying crew. Medics are never tested with barovariations and go in blood with sudden doses.
Organize your life to do what you wanted (sex) and needed (reading FCOM ) chosed (fly) with adequate rest and stimulation.
Our school life didn't taught us that important aim to success.
- not correct sleep
- use of any pill said to have no counter-effect .
Forget pills definitively. If you are tired inform your airline you are not fit and don't fly.
Learn how much sleep YOU need : start during holidays; go to bed when you feel asleep, no alarm, and watch at which time you wake up. Stand up and start your day. You will discover that during your sleep you may have some half wake-up, the next day you remember you listened the church or wrote a word on a paper, aso but felt asleep again easily. You will see that that sleep part has a specific duration (for me it is around 1½ hour, for other it will be 2 hours). Then you will discover that your real wake-up needs a round number of such cycles or a bit more. For me it happens after three cycles around five hours. That is my normal sleep time. Many people need around 7 hours.
If I need to have a shorter sleep it will be 3 hours : NEVER cut any short cycle with an alarm or otherwise.
If a was very tired by the day, or when I was working by night the whole week (as freightdog) I will need 7 hours (4 short cycles).
Observe yourself. I need to sleep the two first short cycles together, and sleeping more than 7 hours destroys my whole day : I shall be like a zombie, and feel bad.
Now during work time schedules are irregular. Keep always in sight your cycles' need. Flying by night is not the same as flying by day : sleep is normally regulated by body temperature. Colder to sleep, warmer to work. Regulation of temperature is disturbed by your schedules and the outside light oscillation . Take a 10 minutes bath with decreased temperature ½°c lower than your actual body before going to sleep if it is daytime. No pill .
If you change your time zone, some days (2-3 days ) before your flight prepare your body :
- modify the schedule of your salted meals at the wanted new schedule
- go to bed (probably you will not sleep but manage a quiet life lying) to take "rest" despite it is often said that we cannot rest before to be tired : false, we may accumulate some prerest, and it is not necessfull to sleep, but stay in your bed try to "dream" (possible without to sleep! )
Sometimes demanding tasks increases the need to rest : learn and train some naps: I am able to do without alarm a 3 minutes and a 15 minutes nap.
Caffeine ? Normally it will just disturb your brain work ! If you like coffee drink only the best : Arabica at regular times.
All that works if you are fit without pathology which is normally the case for pilots.
Overall forget pills when you are a flying crew. Medics are never tested with barovariations and go in blood with sudden doses.
Organize your life to do what you wanted (sex) and needed (reading FCOM ) chosed (fly) with adequate rest and stimulation.
Our school life didn't taught us that important aim to success.
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The important thing to remember is that different people are different. Cutting short my sleep at the right time works well for me based on crew rest considerations for the flight which can vary from three or four crewmember flights all night(plus more) to 2 crew flights all night.
I have only very occasion found myself sleepy at the more important times of flight.
Changing time zone 2-3 days before flight would frequently not work for me as I sometimes go from days to nights and back to days with 36 hours in between. However, If you are fortunate enough to have this time period, from a fatigue point of view, it can work quite well.
I have only very occasion found myself sleepy at the more important times of flight.
Changing time zone 2-3 days before flight would frequently not work for me as I sometimes go from days to nights and back to days with 36 hours in between. However, If you are fortunate enough to have this time period, from a fatigue point of view, it can work quite well.