A320 Fire warning on ground with battery only.
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A320 Fire warning on ground with battery only.
I'm a little bit confusing about fire warning on ground with battery only situation.
Last day in simulator, I rejected takeoff due to engine fire during takeoff roll, and I just followed ECAM action and shut down both engines after discharging both agent. Of course, all DUs became blank and only the dome light lit. Then I wondered if engine fire goes out or not because no red light on Fire Pb was available.
My understanding is that on ground with battery only, we have no aural warning and warning light because of no powered FWC, despite the engine fire detector is working.
Is it correct?
Last day in simulator, I rejected takeoff due to engine fire during takeoff roll, and I just followed ECAM action and shut down both engines after discharging both agent. Of course, all DUs became blank and only the dome light lit. Then I wondered if engine fire goes out or not because no red light on Fire Pb was available.
My understanding is that on ground with battery only, we have no aural warning and warning light because of no powered FWC, despite the engine fire detector is working.
Is it correct?
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The appropriate action may depend on company sops. For us, in your scenario, following confirmation that an engine fire exists then the assumption is that an evacuation will follow. In this event, the emergency evacuation checklist is the only procedure to follow which will include, securing engines etc.
john_smith - I respectfully disagree.
A highly-respected TRE taught me during my command course that the decision to evacuate can be changed right up to the point you actually give the command, i.e. at the end of checklist. If the fire is put out after commencement of the checklist and subsequently it becomes clear that actually the aircraft is safe and will remain safe, it is not mandatory to evacuate just because the checklist has been commenced.
Of course in the sim we invariably practise it to an evacuation and how it would work in real life with panicking passengers and cabin crew primed for an evacuation is another story entirely.
A highly-respected TRE taught me during my command course that the decision to evacuate can be changed right up to the point you actually give the command, i.e. at the end of checklist. If the fire is put out after commencement of the checklist and subsequently it becomes clear that actually the aircraft is safe and will remain safe, it is not mandatory to evacuate just because the checklist has been commenced.
Of course in the sim we invariably practise it to an evacuation and how it would work in real life with panicking passengers and cabin crew primed for an evacuation is another story entirely.
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Thanks for your reply.
Once I shutdown both engines, I cannot see if fire has gone or not anyway, and it only lead to evacuation procedure regardless of its necessity.
Another idea is that just wait for some seconds and see what happens after agent 2 discharge with another engine running. I think that's the only way to avoid unnecessary evacuation.
ECAM action just says shutdown remaining engine and it could cause that sometimes crew shuts the engine down instinctively because of such an urgent situation.
Once I shutdown both engines, I cannot see if fire has gone or not anyway, and it only lead to evacuation procedure regardless of its necessity.
Another idea is that just wait for some seconds and see what happens after agent 2 discharge with another engine running. I think that's the only way to avoid unnecessary evacuation.
ECAM action just says shutdown remaining engine and it could cause that sometimes crew shuts the engine down instinctively because of such an urgent situation.
Yes, your edit there is the sort of thing I had in mind. Realistically yes, we are going to evacuate once the checklist has commenced, but I would consider it unwise to assert that:
holds true 100% of the time. There may be an occasion where it might not be necessary, however improbable it sounds discussing this specific scenario. Remember, not every evacuation occurs after an RTO with an engine fire.
whether the fire has gone out or not is an irrelevant concern at this point, as you've already made the decision to evacuate.
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John,
Sorry I can't understand your point, please could you amplify why you would certainly evacuate? Please bear in mind the OP might be flying an aircraft where the second engine master off may occur as an ECAM action as part of the first engine fire. This changes in later FWC revisions so he may not have taken a decision to evacuate when the second engine is shutdown.
OP - From FCOM -
Exactly what sonicbum said...
Sorry I can't understand your point, please could you amplify why you would certainly evacuate? Please bear in mind the OP might be flying an aircraft where the second engine master off may occur as an ECAM action as part of the first engine fire. This changes in later FWC revisions so he may not have taken a decision to evacuate when the second engine is shutdown.
OP - From FCOM -
ENG FIRE pushbutton remains on, as long as fire detected
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@ john smith
" It would be at this point that the DUs would fail, but whether the fire has gone out or not is an irrelevant concern at this point, as you've already made the decision to evacuate. ""
-smooth
We all make our decisions based on if our own kids were in the back anyway.
-smooth
We all make our decisions based on if our own kids were in the back anyway.
Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 6th Apr 2014 at 22:39.
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krbys
In your aircraft you operate both agents on the affected engine following ECAM and if fire remains on then change to paper procedure and apply it all the way till "If Evacuation required" as below and at that stage you can still see the fire warning if it is on then only order evacuation. Once EVAC is ordered it should not be cancelled.
FIRE Pushbuttons (ALL: ENG and APU)........................................................ ...........................PUSH
AGENTS (ENG and APU)........................................................ ........................................... AS RQRD
Engine Agent 2 is not available.
The use of agents is required if the ENG FIRE or APU FIRE is displayed.
If Evacuation required:
EVACUATION.................. ............................................................ ..........................INITIATE
Notify the cabin crew about the emergency encountered and the intentions.
Press the EVAC COMMAND pb.
If Evacuation not required:
CABIN CREW and PASSENGERS (PA)........................................................ ..................NOTIFY
In your aircraft you operate both agents on the affected engine following ECAM and if fire remains on then change to paper procedure and apply it all the way till "If Evacuation required" as below and at that stage you can still see the fire warning if it is on then only order evacuation. Once EVAC is ordered it should not be cancelled.
FIRE Pushbuttons (ALL: ENG and APU)........................................................ ...........................PUSH
AGENTS (ENG and APU)........................................................ ........................................... AS RQRD
Engine Agent 2 is not available.
The use of agents is required if the ENG FIRE or APU FIRE is displayed.
If Evacuation required:
EVACUATION.................. ............................................................ ..........................INITIATE
Notify the cabin crew about the emergency encountered and the intentions.
Press the EVAC COMMAND pb.
If Evacuation not required:
CABIN CREW and PASSENGERS (PA)........................................................ ..................NOTIFY
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Krbys,
Sonicbum answered your question . The light remains on as long as the fire is detected .
Whether you still want to evacuate or not , commander's decision . Many variables .
Sonicbum answered your question . The light remains on as long as the fire is detected .
Whether you still want to evacuate or not , commander's decision . Many variables .
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Thanks guys.
Fire warning is still working even though there is only battery power. That's the answer I want. So under such a situation like engine fire followed by RTO, we can just follow the ecam until both engines shutodown, then still have a choice if we proceed to evac or not.
.Fire warning is still working even though there is only battery power. That's the answer I want. So under such a situation like engine fire followed by RTO, we can just follow the ecam until both engines shutodown, then still have a choice if we proceed to evac or not.
