How does altitude affect the aircraft performance?
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How does altitude affect the aircraft performance?
Hi
Sorry for this stupid question... but this really bothers me a lot
So to start with, as altitude increases(let say pressure altitude),the air density decreases, and so as the drag(parasite drag), so the aircraft will have its maximum aerodynamic performance at its service attitude....
But I have just read a book, which says high attitude decreases the aircraft performance...I guess its because of the lower air density that deceases the amount of airflow pushing rearward, resulting in the decease of thrust and hence aircraft performance?!?!
So after all, do high altitude decrease or increase in the aircraft performance?!
thanks!
Sorry for this stupid question... but this really bothers me a lot
So to start with, as altitude increases(let say pressure altitude),the air density decreases, and so as the drag(parasite drag), so the aircraft will have its maximum aerodynamic performance at its service attitude....
But I have just read a book, which says high attitude decreases the aircraft performance...I guess its because of the lower air density that deceases the amount of airflow pushing rearward, resulting in the decease of thrust and hence aircraft performance?!?!
So after all, do high altitude decrease or increase in the aircraft performance?!
thanks!
Hino,
Your book is more likely to give you the answers, as it is a long and complex subject.
What do you mean by Performance? Maximum speed? Maximum range? Jet? Turbo prop? Piston? Turbo Normalised?
In general terms, you have the basic idea- Drag is (simplistically) proportionate to Calibrated Airspeed- as altitude increases, True Airspeed increases as a function of CAS, so all other things being equal speed and range will increase with altitude.
That, however, assumes thrust is constant. As altitude increases, available power reduces, so the point at which maximum performance is available is the highest altitude at which the power required for a particular CAS is available.
Your book is more likely to give you the answers, as it is a long and complex subject.
What do you mean by Performance? Maximum speed? Maximum range? Jet? Turbo prop? Piston? Turbo Normalised?
In general terms, you have the basic idea- Drag is (simplistically) proportionate to Calibrated Airspeed- as altitude increases, True Airspeed increases as a function of CAS, so all other things being equal speed and range will increase with altitude.
That, however, assumes thrust is constant. As altitude increases, available power reduces, so the point at which maximum performance is available is the highest altitude at which the power required for a particular CAS is available.
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Originally Posted by hin
So to start with, as altitude increases(let say pressure altitude),the air density decreases, and so as the drag(parasite drag), so the aircraft will have its maximum aerodynamic performance at its service attitude....
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So u guys are saying drag will only proportional to IAS/EAS, but has nothing to do with the air density??
However, based on the fact that true airspeed increases with altitude for constant IAS ,isn't it because of the lower air density at high altitude that a smaller amount of drag presents so that the TAS becomes higher??
However, based on the fact that true airspeed increases with altitude for constant IAS ,isn't it because of the lower air density at high altitude that a smaller amount of drag presents so that the TAS becomes higher??
Last edited by hin0727; 9th Jul 2013 at 11:17.
No both are true.
For the same TAS drag will be lower if air density is lower- but so is IAS.
For a given IAS, TAS increases as air density reduces, but drag remains,constant. ( This is the simple answer, there are other factors)
For the same TAS drag will be lower if air density is lower- but so is IAS.
For a given IAS, TAS increases as air density reduces, but drag remains,constant. ( This is the simple answer, there are other factors)
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So for a constant IAS, TAS increases in climbing is due to the reduction of air density, but nothing to do with drag, because drag is only proportional to IAS, is that right?
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within the limits of normal comprehension altitude does not effect the aeroplane it merely effects the engine performance.
in the less dense air at altitude the aircraft flies faster over the ground but experiences the same dynamic pressures and indicates the same airspeed.
takeoff and landing at altitude are different from sea level because of the need for speeds that achieve the dynamic pressures that the aircraft works with.
in the less dense air at altitude the aircraft flies faster over the ground but experiences the same dynamic pressures and indicates the same airspeed.
takeoff and landing at altitude are different from sea level because of the need for speeds that achieve the dynamic pressures that the aircraft works with.
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takeoff and landing at altitude are different from sea level because of the need for speeds that achieve the dynamic pressures that the aircraft works with.
Last edited by BOAC; 9th Jul 2013 at 14:30.
So for a constant IAS, TAS increases in climbing is due to the reduction of air density, but nothing to do with drag, because drag is only proportional to IAS, is that right?
So, if you assume constant power, you achieve a higher TAS as you climb at a constant IAS.
HOWEVER (With the possible exception of a turbo-normalized Piston Engine) available thrust REDUCES with altitude, so at some point you won't be ABLE to maintain a constant IAS, and your performance will begin to degrade.
Now, some high performance aircraft will reach their service ceiling (perhaps mandated because of Pressurization as an example) while still having enough power to achieve VMO- and thus will ALWAYS be able to achieve a higher performance by climbing.
Most, however, reach there "Best" altitude lower than their "Highest" altitude.
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that is where you went wrong. A/C generally fly at an IAS. At the same IAS, drag is the same (it actually increases with altitude, but that 'is not important right now') regardless of altitude.
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OAP - jolly good - I am aware of the functions of ADCs. I was flying CAS 40 years ago. This thread began with a simple question from someone who needed a bit of help in understanding the effects of altitude on performance. As so often on PPRune, the thread becomes the bandstand on which some folk can display their 'knowledge' about aviation matters that are not actually relevant to the topic and before long the thread will be full of erudite mathematical equations and the like and hin will probably have fainted.
In the interest of wiz and I trying to keep things reasonably simple for hin0727, we tried to 'keep away' from corrections to IAS - the OQ indicated absolutely no need to enter into that domain. Hin appears to have read a book which is guiding him/her in the right direction. Introducing CAS/EAS will merely confuse at this stage. Now then, tell me - is the speed you see on the ASI the speed indicated (which makes it the 'Indicated Airspeed'?) or not? As an 'oap', do you rotate when the given speed is indicated on your ASI? What is your definition of 'indicated'? If you were teaching an 'ab initio' about flying, would you launch straight into CAS/EAS?
In the interest of wiz and I trying to keep things reasonably simple for hin0727, we tried to 'keep away' from corrections to IAS - the OQ indicated absolutely no need to enter into that domain. Hin appears to have read a book which is guiding him/her in the right direction. Introducing CAS/EAS will merely confuse at this stage. Now then, tell me - is the speed you see on the ASI the speed indicated (which makes it the 'Indicated Airspeed'?) or not? As an 'oap', do you rotate when the given speed is indicated on your ASI? What is your definition of 'indicated'? If you were teaching an 'ab initio' about flying, would you launch straight into CAS/EAS?
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Hey guys. Not sure of what drag are you talking about, but I´ve always been taught that both parasite and airframe drag reduces with an increase of altitude due to the reduction in air density. That is why jets like to fly high to achieve best SFC (using less fuel) and less airframe drag.
Maybe you could elaborate a bit more?
Thanks
Maybe you could elaborate a bit more?
Thanks
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Aerodynamics at high altitude are slightly more interesting due to some factors that Im sure the book will explain later.
I will only back up what WizOfOz said.. Stick to the book because the answer to the question if Performance decreases with altitude could be yes & no, depending on what we are talking about.
I will only back up what WizOfOz said.. Stick to the book because the answer to the question if Performance decreases with altitude could be yes & no, depending on what we are talking about.
The key issue is defining "performance."
Thanks to reduced drag at higher altitudes (up to a point) the aircraft can travel faster (true airspeed). Even with reduced power and thrust (less air to burn with fuel, and less air to push for thrust).
And has to travel faster, to generate enough lift in the thinner air.
TAS is not the only measure of performance, however.
A takeoff at a high altitude will take longer - less thrust for acceleration, and more TAS needed, to reach rotation speed measured in IAS.
If you have a "drag race" between two identical planes taking off - one at sea level and one from 6,000 feet (2,000 meters) - the plane at sea level will have much better performance - a shorter takeoff roll in both time and distance, and better climb performance (obstacle/terrain clearance capability) after liftoff. Accelerating at the low end of the speed range (from zero to Vr/V2), the lower drag of thinner air doesn't help performance much.
Thanks to reduced drag at higher altitudes (up to a point) the aircraft can travel faster (true airspeed). Even with reduced power and thrust (less air to burn with fuel, and less air to push for thrust).
And has to travel faster, to generate enough lift in the thinner air.
TAS is not the only measure of performance, however.
A takeoff at a high altitude will take longer - less thrust for acceleration, and more TAS needed, to reach rotation speed measured in IAS.
If you have a "drag race" between two identical planes taking off - one at sea level and one from 6,000 feet (2,000 meters) - the plane at sea level will have much better performance - a shorter takeoff roll in both time and distance, and better climb performance (obstacle/terrain clearance capability) after liftoff. Accelerating at the low end of the speed range (from zero to Vr/V2), the lower drag of thinner air doesn't help performance much.
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@BOAC
The speed displayed on many PFDs is in fact CAS not IAS despite the fact that it is indicated.
Of course you then have the good old Avro RJ that displays something called computed air speed which is a crap attempt at CAS.
The speed displayed on many PFDs is in fact CAS not IAS despite the fact that it is indicated.
Of course you then have the good old Avro RJ that displays something called computed air speed which is a crap attempt at CAS.