Runway Line Up Technique
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Can you please name an official document where it says that the yellow line at the end of the runway is a "taxi-out" line and not a "taxi-in" line? Hard to quote to a trainee without documentary proof
FAA AIM 2-3-4.b:
b. Taxiway Centerline.
1. Normal Centerline. The taxiway centerline is a single continuous yellow line, 6 inches (15 cm) to 12 inches (30 cm) in width. This provides a visual cue to permit taxiing along a designated path. Ideally, the aircraft should be kept centered over this line during taxi. However, being centered on the taxiway centerline does not guarantee wingtip clearance with other aircraft or other objects.
1. Normal Centerline. The taxiway centerline is a single continuous yellow line, 6 inches (15 cm) to 12 inches (30 cm) in width. This provides a visual cue to permit taxiing along a designated path. Ideally, the aircraft should be kept centered over this line during taxi. However, being centered on the taxiway centerline does not guarantee wingtip clearance with other aircraft or other objects.
c. Taxiway Centerline Lead−Off Lights. Taxiway centerline lead−off lights provide visual guidance to persons exiting the runway. They are
color−coded to warn pilots and vehicle drivers that they are within the runway environment or instrument landing system/microwave landing system (ILS/MLS) critical area, whichever is more restrictive. Alternate green and yellow lights are installed, beginning with green, from the runway centerline to one centerline light position beyond the runway holding position or ILS/MLS critical area holding position.
d. Taxiway Centerline Lead−On Lights. Taxiway centerline lead−on lights provide visual guidance to persons entering the runway. These “lead−on” lights are also color−coded with the same color pattern as lead−off lights to warn pilots and vehicle drivers that they are within the runway environment or instrument landing system/microwave landing system (ILS/MLS) critical area, whichever is more conservative. The fixtures used for lead−on lights are bidirectional, i.e., one side emits light for the lead−on function while the other side emits light for the lead−off function. Any fixture that emits yellow light for the lead−off function must also emit yellow light for the lead−on function. (See FIG 2−1−14.)
color−coded to warn pilots and vehicle drivers that they are within the runway environment or instrument landing system/microwave landing system (ILS/MLS) critical area, whichever is more restrictive. Alternate green and yellow lights are installed, beginning with green, from the runway centerline to one centerline light position beyond the runway holding position or ILS/MLS critical area holding position.
d. Taxiway Centerline Lead−On Lights. Taxiway centerline lead−on lights provide visual guidance to persons entering the runway. These “lead−on” lights are also color−coded with the same color pattern as lead−off lights to warn pilots and vehicle drivers that they are within the runway environment or instrument landing system/microwave landing system (ILS/MLS) critical area, whichever is more conservative. The fixtures used for lead−on lights are bidirectional, i.e., one side emits light for the lead−on function while the other side emits light for the lead−off function. Any fixture that emits yellow light for the lead−off function must also emit yellow light for the lead−on function. (See FIG 2−1−14.)
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FAA vs ICAO
Nice info thanks. This seems though, to pertain to lead-in and lead-out lighting/marking as per FAA rules. Even without lighting involved, lead-in / lead-out marking is mandatory as per FAA circular 4.2.b.(2) https://www.faasafety.gov/files/gsla...1K_change1.pdf
However according to ICAO, there exists a requirement to have a lead-out line when a taxiway is meant as an exit - there is no mention of a lead-in.
Ref 5.2.8.7 Visual aids for navigation annex 14, it recommends a curved lead-out line when a taxiway serves as an exit to a runway
http://www.orga.nl/pdf/Chapter%205%2...Navigation.pdf
I guess one can use a lead out line as a lead-in when one exists, as long as regard line up requirements for the runway in question, are met. Most airlines these days lay out their own line up techniques with runway length loss built into their OPTs and outlined in their Ops manuals.
Cheers
However according to ICAO, there exists a requirement to have a lead-out line when a taxiway is meant as an exit - there is no mention of a lead-in.
Ref 5.2.8.7 Visual aids for navigation annex 14, it recommends a curved lead-out line when a taxiway serves as an exit to a runway
http://www.orga.nl/pdf/Chapter%205%2...Navigation.pdf
I guess one can use a lead out line as a lead-in when one exists, as long as regard line up requirements for the runway in question, are met. Most airlines these days lay out their own line up techniques with runway length loss built into their OPTs and outlined in their Ops manuals.
Cheers
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Unbelievable!
Are there any Airline Pilots on this site?!
Line-up technique is simple! Basic airmanship and taught during first line training...
When at the holding point and ATC tells you " line up and wait", you line up according to what your performance calculation has given you as distance. Normally, this means a 90 degree turn on the runway. Then you hold at that position untill cleared for TO. Unless a run-up is necessary( icing conditions,...) or when short field performance, no need to run-up. Release brakes, increase thrust to " stable value" and then prss TOGA.
When at the holding point and cleared for TO, do a rolling take-off, trying to have TOGA when aligned with the runway. No rolling take off in case of contaminated runway or if TS in the vicinity of the field ( wx-check of initial climbout path)
ALL basic Airmanship ladies!
And no, I do not give a damn about any ATC screaming. Not my problem. My ONLY responsibility when cleared TO is to operate the aircraft in the safest way possible and in accordance to the Manufacturer FCTM.
Are there any Airline Pilots on this site?!
Line-up technique is simple! Basic airmanship and taught during first line training...
When at the holding point and ATC tells you " line up and wait", you line up according to what your performance calculation has given you as distance. Normally, this means a 90 degree turn on the runway. Then you hold at that position untill cleared for TO. Unless a run-up is necessary( icing conditions,...) or when short field performance, no need to run-up. Release brakes, increase thrust to " stable value" and then prss TOGA.
When at the holding point and cleared for TO, do a rolling take-off, trying to have TOGA when aligned with the runway. No rolling take off in case of contaminated runway or if TS in the vicinity of the field ( wx-check of initial climbout path)
ALL basic Airmanship ladies!
And no, I do not give a damn about any ATC screaming. Not my problem. My ONLY responsibility when cleared TO is to operate the aircraft in the safest way possible and in accordance to the Manufacturer FCTM.
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If I Could...
Three simple thoughts:
1. If I could, I line up that then BACK UP to get he rear most wheel at the edge of the RW. I know... the chiefs and the MX folks take a a dim view of backing up with jets, but it IS possible.
2. When not comfortable with taxi markings - and even at the risk of being un-cool, I'd stop and request a guide.
3. When all else fails, one can also SLOW the taxi pace to walking or less through critical turns. Being a little slow is always better than dropping a wheel or an entire truck into the mud.
1. If I could, I line up that then BACK UP to get he rear most wheel at the edge of the RW. I know... the chiefs and the MX folks take a a dim view of backing up with jets, but it IS possible.
2. When not comfortable with taxi markings - and even at the risk of being un-cool, I'd stop and request a guide.
3. When all else fails, one can also SLOW the taxi pace to walking or less through critical turns. Being a little slow is always better than dropping a wheel or an entire truck into the mud.
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Can you please name an official document where it says that the yellow line at the end of the runway is a "taxi-out" line and not a "taxi-in" line? Hard to quote to a trainee without documentary proof
Aerodromes make use of intersection take-offs to maintain runway capacity and efficiency.
4.2 Due to the lack of consistent guidance, aerodromes have chosen 3 different origins to calculate the distance:
4.4 The use of the downwind origin as the basis for calculating declared distances from a runway intersection provides consistency with the full-length calculation.
4.2 Due to the lack of consistent guidance, aerodromes have chosen 3 different origins to calculate the distance:
- a) The downwind edge of the taxiway, extended ahead to meet the runway centreline;
- b) The upwind edge of the taxiway extended ahead to meet the runway centreline;
- c) The tangent point where the taxiway centreline curve meets the runway centreline.
4.4 The use of the downwind origin as the basis for calculating declared distances from a runway intersection provides consistency with the full-length calculation.
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Allow me also include the UK guidelines from CAP 168 which can be found in 13.5 Declared distances from runway intersections.
Contained within are Figures 3.14 through 3.16 which show that the distance calculated is NOT coinciding with the markings and lines, validating my earlier statement that the lines (in UK) had nothing to do with lineup from intersections.
Furthermore, the document shows that any lead-in lines onto runways are not taken into account for takeoff distances available, merely aid the pilot to position on the runway.
Declared distances from a runway intersection shall be calculated from the downwind edge of the taxiway.
Furthermore, the document shows that any lead-in lines onto runways are not taken into account for takeoff distances available, merely aid the pilot to position on the runway.
The origin of full-length declared distances is, in most cases, the end of concrete; therefore, following aircraft line-up, the origin is behind the aircraft. An allowance for the length of the aircraft is taken into account when calculating the remaining distance. ICAO publishes the following in Annex 6 Part I, Chapter 5, paragraph 5.2.8.1: "In determining the length of the runway available, account shall be taken of the loss, if any, of runway length due to alignment of the aeroplane prior to take-off." Aircraft performance manuals make the same calculation for line-up allowance irrespective of where that line-up occurs along the runway. Therefore, flight crews would expect to calculate a similar correction distance at an intersection departure as for a full-length departure, regardless of where the origin is located. The use of the downwind origin as the basis for calculating declared distances from a runway intersection provides consistency with the full-length calculation.
Last edited by Skyjob; 3rd May 2015 at 13:45.
