Concorde question
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: All over the place
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ideally I'd like a sectioned 593 on display, as there's not a lot to see on the outside of a turbojet engine except the ancilliaries - and you can see those by opening the engine bay doors.
I can't seem to find any reference to it as to whether it is still there, disposed of or in storeage ??? Perhaps someone has contacts ???
regards
Howie
A more practical issue was that the engines were "handed", so that if a "left-handed" engine failed and you had only "right-handed" engines in stock, you had a problem.....
handed? really?
If the quote in message #1504 is correct, why would there be a vibration problem on take off in engine #4 only?
Ref: p80 Haynes 'Owners Workshop Manual'
I make no claim to technical knowledge but this seems unlikely. Is there a source for this?
Ref: p80 Haynes 'Owners Workshop Manual'
I make no claim to technical knowledge but this seems unlikely. Is there a source for this?
Last edited by 911slf; 5th Dec 2011 at 08:18. Reason: reference
Smug
ref #1496
I have still got my key ring from my 1980 flight. Thank you Birmingham Evening Mail competitions department.
Still cost me an arm and a leg. I arrived in Paris by Concorde and tried to live up to the image. Trip to the Lido, dinner on the Champs Elysee. Never did admit to the wife what I spent.
I have still got my key ring from my 1980 flight. Thank you Birmingham Evening Mail competitions department.
Still cost me an arm and a leg. I arrived in Paris by Concorde and tried to live up to the image. Trip to the Lido, dinner on the Champs Elysee. Never did admit to the wife what I spent.
Last edited by 911slf; 5th Dec 2011 at 08:10. Reason: reference
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: France
Posts: 2,315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry to have caused some confusion....
BN2A is right : some of the pipes, pumps, generators, ancillariy gearboxes, connectors and suchlike on the outside of the 'round peg' are installed either on the left or the right side of the engine, so that they fit inside the 'square hole' while remaining accessible for inspection/maintenance.
911slf, all engines rotate in the same direction. However, the vortices rolling off the leading edges of the wings into the air intakes rotate in opposite directions.
Now if you look at a photo or a model, you'll see that the intakes of the outboard engines (#1 and #4) are quite close to the leading edges.
No problem for engine #1, because the rotation of the air entering the intake is the same as that of the engine itself, but for engine #4 there is a conflict between the senses of rotoation, leading to vibration at low speed.
Engine #3 is further back from the wing leading edge, so the airflow into the intake has already been 'straightened out' more, hence the problem doesn't occur there.
Maybe M2dude has some more details?
CJ
BN2A is right : some of the pipes, pumps, generators, ancillariy gearboxes, connectors and suchlike on the outside of the 'round peg' are installed either on the left or the right side of the engine, so that they fit inside the 'square hole' while remaining accessible for inspection/maintenance.
911slf, all engines rotate in the same direction. However, the vortices rolling off the leading edges of the wings into the air intakes rotate in opposite directions.
Now if you look at a photo or a model, you'll see that the intakes of the outboard engines (#1 and #4) are quite close to the leading edges.
No problem for engine #1, because the rotation of the air entering the intake is the same as that of the engine itself, but for engine #4 there is a conflict between the senses of rotoation, leading to vibration at low speed.
Engine #3 is further back from the wing leading edge, so the airflow into the intake has already been 'straightened out' more, hence the problem doesn't occur there.
Maybe M2dude has some more details?
CJ
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Age: 88
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've said it before to Dude, but it will bear repeating I think: it was the vortex coming off the intake sidewall that caused the problem, not anything coming off the wing. The highly swept, sharp leading edge was perfect for generating vortices at high engine demand and low aircraft forward speed.
CliveL
CliveL
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: France
Posts: 2,315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CliveL,
Many thanks for chipping in.... I gave the explanation to the best of my knowledge, but as you know I'm not an aerodynamicist, nor an engine expert, so I was actually hoping either M2dude or you would add the corrections.
What caused the actual vibration? Incipient stall of the first compressor stages, or some separate phenomenon?
CJ
Many thanks for chipping in.... I gave the explanation to the best of my knowledge, but as you know I'm not an aerodynamicist, nor an engine expert, so I was actually hoping either M2dude or you would add the corrections.
What caused the actual vibration? Incipient stall of the first compressor stages, or some separate phenomenon?
CJ
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Age: 88
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Christiaan,
To be honest, it was all a long time ago
#4 intake was marginally worse than #1 in several ways. Obviously this particular problem was linked to the engine face distortion pattern and may have been associated with the combination of the 'handedness' of the incoming vortex with the non-radial inlet guide vanes which together could have given some subtle variations in distortions between sides. But it was all pretty fine drawn stuff, and the problem disappeared by 60 kts or thereabouts.
CliveL
To be honest, it was all a long time ago
#4 intake was marginally worse than #1 in several ways. Obviously this particular problem was linked to the engine face distortion pattern and may have been associated with the combination of the 'handedness' of the incoming vortex with the non-radial inlet guide vanes which together could have given some subtle variations in distortions between sides. But it was all pretty fine drawn stuff, and the problem disappeared by 60 kts or thereabouts.
CliveL
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bracknell, Berks, UK
Age: 52
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone got £1.25m under the sofa?
Concorde Rolls-Royce Olympus 593-610 Turbojet Engine with Reheat | eBay
Concorde Rolls-Royce Olympus 593-610 Turbojet Engine with Reheat | eBay
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: All over the place
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
I had a look on the eBay link and I question the engine model - the Forward Bearing supports are 5 struts but not the same configuration as the Series 200. I thought the 593 was derived from the 300 Series.
see below a picture of a 593 from Wiki:
File
lympus593.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
regards
Howie
I had a look on the eBay link and I question the engine model - the Forward Bearing supports are 5 struts but not the same configuration as the Series 200. I thought the 593 was derived from the 300 Series.
see below a picture of a 593 from Wiki:
File
lympus593.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaregards
Howie
Last edited by howiehowie93; 6th Dec 2011 at 19:56. Reason: trying to get the front view of the eBay engine on here fo comparison - massive fail !
ambidextrous
Thanks ChristiaanJ#1508 and CliveL#1509. That's what I thought. It was the quote in #1504 that implied left and right handed engines with all the stock problems that would cause.
At risk of thread drift I think that anything with propellers would be likely to suffer much more from asymmetry, but I think folk just put up with it - except in the few cases where there are contrarotating propellers.
Am I right in thinking that once the necessary minimum rpm was achieved, reheat was selected on all four engines, but that some (automatic?) control restricted the power to engine#4 until 60kt was achieved?
At risk of thread drift I think that anything with propellers would be likely to suffer much more from asymmetry, but I think folk just put up with it - except in the few cases where there are contrarotating propellers.
Am I right in thinking that once the necessary minimum rpm was achieved, reheat was selected on all four engines, but that some (automatic?) control restricted the power to engine#4 until 60kt was achieved?
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 5,197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
M2dude
Not surprisingly, the first edition of this excellent book sold out very quickly.
It's now available again.
Reviews here
H.
John Hutchinson - The Wind Beneath My Wings
A superbly interesting read, written about arguably the most eloquent of all Concorde pilot speakers. One of life's true gentlemen and a superb pilot, it is a long overdue biography, well done Hutch.
A superbly interesting read, written about arguably the most eloquent of all Concorde pilot speakers. One of life's true gentlemen and a superb pilot, it is a long overdue biography, well done Hutch.
It's now available again.
Reviews here
H.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LONDON
Age: 51
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I must say a very interesting and worthwhile read, it is so excellent that the general oiks like I have the opportunity to pose some questions - for the participation of those in the know I applaud you 
. My first memory of her is when I was 8 from the top of the Queens building (IIRC) watching her taxy and take off, I have visited her many times at RNAS Yeovilton but alas did not have the funds in 2003 to make one of the final flights.
I have some questions if I may, they are very general and aimed at getting some more fascinating discussion going - I am only a student ppl so cant go into the nitty gritty so hope to prompt some memories.
1) I adore the lady in many ways but I would imagine she was far from perfect with the challenges that had to be overcome. I would imagine the positives way out weighed any negatives. So what were the downsides for the Capt/FO/FE that were most discussed - was anything done to alleviate these is design/Pre-Production and what if any gripes made it through to production.
2) For each of you (I would imagine they would be different based upon your skill set) what were the biggest challenges you personally had to overcome when switching to/designing our iconic aircraft.
Finally some more anecdote's from LandLady and Concorde Trivia from M2 would be good.
Many thx
. My first memory of her is when I was 8 from the top of the Queens building (IIRC) watching her taxy and take off, I have visited her many times at RNAS Yeovilton but alas did not have the funds in 2003 to make one of the final flights.I have some questions if I may, they are very general and aimed at getting some more fascinating discussion going - I am only a student ppl so cant go into the nitty gritty so hope to prompt some memories.
1) I adore the lady in many ways but I would imagine she was far from perfect with the challenges that had to be overcome. I would imagine the positives way out weighed any negatives. So what were the downsides for the Capt/FO/FE that were most discussed - was anything done to alleviate these is design/Pre-Production and what if any gripes made it through to production.
2) For each of you (I would imagine they would be different based upon your skill set) what were the biggest challenges you personally had to overcome when switching to/designing our iconic aircraft.
Finally some more anecdote's from LandLady and Concorde Trivia from M2 would be good.
Many thx
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: It used to be an island...
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: France
Posts: 2,315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And through the long proto-preprod-prod developent cycle, I would say she was as near 'perfect' as we could make her at the time she went into service.
Maybe I should mention that in 'my field' (automatic flight control systems) the 'state-of-the-art' was changing significantly almost from year to year.
I would imagine the positives way out weighed any negatives. So what were the downsides for the Capt/FO/FE that were most discussed - was anything done to alleviate these is design/Pre-Production and what if any gripes made it through to production.
2) For each of you (I would imagine they would be different based upon your skill set) what were the biggest challenges you personally had to overcome when switching to/designing our iconic aircraft.
Being Dutch, I had to convert my school French to engineering French on the one hand, and 'argot' on the other hand, while at the same time getting familiar with the way 'my' firm was implementing the latest developments in electronics.
Finally some more anecdotes from LandLady and Concorde Trivia from M2 would be good.
It's a pity no book quite like that has ever been written about Concorde... and I can't imagine it could be written today. Too many of the 'actors' have retired, or are not there anymore....
Maybe somebody ambitious could use this thread as a base, and do some interviews, and write "Concorde, From Then to Now" ?
CJ
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cockpit Color
Hi folks. Christian,M2 etal.
On numerous cockpit photos I have seen,; sometimes the cockpit panels seem to have a bluish tint to them. Other times they look like the standard gray, I see in the 737NG I fly.
Can you shed a little light on the actual color of the cockpit panels.
I realize that different panels installed maybe slightly different colored, but overall, what was the general color of the panels.
Thank You, for ALL your Wonderful insight and Stories of the Beautiful Aircraft; I missed out on.
Best,
David
On numerous cockpit photos I have seen,; sometimes the cockpit panels seem to have a bluish tint to them. Other times they look like the standard gray, I see in the 737NG I fly.
Can you shed a little light on the actual color of the cockpit panels.
I realize that different panels installed maybe slightly different colored, but overall, what was the general color of the panels.
Thank You, for ALL your Wonderful insight and Stories of the Beautiful Aircraft; I missed out on.
Best,
David
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concorde Cockpit
Hi folks. Christian,M2 etal.
On numerous cockpit photos I have seen,; sometimes the cockpit panels seem to have a bluish tint to them. Other times they look like the standard gray, I see in the 737NG I fly.
Can you shed a little light on the actual color of the cockpit panels.
I realize that different panels installed maybe slightly different colored, but overall, what was the general color of the panels.
Thank You, for ALL your Wonderful insight and Stories of the Beautiful Aircraft; I missed out on.
Best,
David
On numerous cockpit photos I have seen,; sometimes the cockpit panels seem to have a bluish tint to them. Other times they look like the standard gray, I see in the 737NG I fly.
Can you shed a little light on the actual color of the cockpit panels.
I realize that different panels installed maybe slightly different colored, but overall, what was the general color of the panels.
Thank You, for ALL your Wonderful insight and Stories of the Beautiful Aircraft; I missed out on.
Best,
David
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: France
Posts: 2,315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On numerous cockpit photos I have seen,; sometimes the cockpit panels seem to have a bluish tint to them. Other times they look like the standard gray, I see in the 737NG I fly.
Can you shed a little light on the actual color of the cockpit panels.
I realize that different panels installed maybe slightly different colored, but overall, what was the general color of the panels.
Can you shed a little light on the actual color of the cockpit panels.
I realize that different panels installed maybe slightly different colored, but overall, what was the general color of the panels.
I suspect the bluish tint is the result of lighting and camera settings.
If you're really interested, I can ask my wife to dig out her "Munseill Book of Color" (standard color chips) and try to match it up.
CJ