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A320 Fuel leak procedure

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Old 5th Jul 2009, 11:57
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A320 Fuel leak procedure

Does anyone know the significance of the 3 tons in the last line of the fuel leak procedure.

It says when each wing tank gets down to 3000Kg to switch the centre tank pumps on.

Thanks
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Old 6th Jul 2009, 12:20
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This is part of CASE 2, where both tanks deplete at the same rate, suggesting a centre tank/APU feed line leak. Not sure that it is "significant" - perhaps just a sensible figure so that you start to use the Centre Tank fuel again to feed the engines and top up the wing tanks.
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Old 6th Jul 2009, 15:52
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The center tank pumps were switched off as part of the investigation process, so that each engine is fed via its associated inner tank only.
Since it is determined that the leak is not from either inner tank nor engine/pylon (both inner deplete in a similar rate), what is left is either APU line or center tank. Supposing center tank leak I really see no reason why not selecting center tank pumps on (mode sel auto) in order to use at least some amount of the center tank. Waiting for full inner tanks to go below 3t, might lead to loss of center tank fuel, part of which could have been used. Auto mode would still control center pumps on-off to allow IDG cooling fuel return to the wings.

@Tyropicard

Actually even with full center tank feeding engines when inners are at 3t, I am not sure if fuel return is able to top up the wings again. I mean fuel has to be used also by the engines. On the other hand if center tank pumps were selected on after the investigation, inner tanks would remain full or almost full until center tank went empty (fuel either used or lost).

@dustypfd

Good question. I don't know the answer. Any help appreciated

Last edited by aristoclis; 6th Jul 2009 at 17:38.
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Old 7th Jul 2009, 14:57
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aristoclis
Actually even with full center tank feeding engines when inners are at 3t, I am not sure if fuel return is able to top up the wings again.
Next time you fly with a reasonable quantity of centre tank fuel monitor the wing tanks to see what happens.

I say again - 3,000 kg has no significance as far as I am aware. It gives you time to monitor the leak for 30 minutes, and then reminds you to switch the centre tank pumps back on for the rest of the flight. It's really very simple.
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Old 7th Jul 2009, 16:08
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Unless I intentionally turned off center tank pumps until inners decrease to 3000kg, I would never have the chance to find out in normal flights. So this is what happens normally: when about 500kg are used from the inners, auto mode turns on the center tank pumps again, so they top up again from the fuel return and center tank pumps come off. Have you noticed anything different? Have you actually seen even half full center tank with 3000kg in the inners in a normal operating fuel system?

And....yes it is really very simple, except: If there is no significance (I really can't find any either) in the 3000kg figure, why mention it in the first place? Would not a simple action -CTR TK PUMP 1+2 (CASE 2 paragraph) in the paperchecklist, regardless of inner tank quantity, be enough to remind the crew?

Suppose after your 30 minutes investigation you have 4.8 tons in either inner (30 minutes aprox. 1200kg burn if they were full when procedure started) and 2 tons in your center. Would you wait another 90 minutes to get to 3 tons in the inners before selecting center tank pumps on and use at least some amount from the center tank? That's what the procedure tells you. Is it really so simple?

Last edited by aristoclis; 7th Jul 2009 at 18:38.
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Old 7th Jul 2009, 19:42
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When reading Airbus FCOM absolute precision is so important... it's the inner tank we need to think about...

I never suggested turning off the centre tank pumps in normal flight ... but as you know they do have the capacity to top up the inner tanks and feed the engines. That is why you turn them off during the fuel leak procedure, so that you can diagnose accurately.

Your A320 inner tanks are bigger than usual! Normal capacity is about 5,400 not 6,000. Let's say you start the procedure with 4.9 T in the inner tank then the qty will be about 3.7 T after 30 minutes in the cruise.

But hopefully you will have already landed within 30 minutes (WHEN A LEAK IS CONFIRMED LAND ASAP) so you only need to turn on the center tank pumps when an inner tank reaches 3,000 kg. for a more distant diversion airfield.
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Old 7th Jul 2009, 20:44
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Well, first of all thanks for the advice about precision.

But reading the FCOM precisely, did you find anywhere stated that when the center tank pumps operate the inners receive fuel from the center tank? I thought in that case center tank is feeding the engines and not the inners. Part of engine fuel is returned to the inners via the outers.

Why turning center tank pumps off at the beginning of the investigation process is crystal clear.

If this process leads to the conclusion that center tank is leaking (inners deplete at the same rate), it would make only sense if center tank had a certain amount of fuel. Center tank being not empty the inners quantity would be between 4.9t and 5.4t each at the beginning of the investigation process. Suppose crew is so slow that it needed 30 minutes to investigate, fuel burn from the inners during investigation and while center tank pumps off, would be about 1.2 t total. This would leave the inners with about 4.3 to 4.8t each. So again, why wait for 3t and not use immediately whatever is left in the center tank?

And suppose you do end up with 3t in either inner, you still think that you can top up your inners from a leaking center tank? That' s a total of 4.8t needed from the fuel return valves
And how am I supposed to find it out if this is possible in a normal flight if not by switching off the center tank pumps off and wait the inners to drop to 3t ? Not a good idea, is it.

And by the way, not my inners but your fuel flow is bigger than usual.
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Old 8th Jul 2009, 18:03
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My own comments

1 - If your dealing with Case 2 (CTR TK concern) the leak is presumed to be in the plumbing, not the tank.

2 - You're supposed to land ASAP (nearest suitable airport). If the leak is CASE 2 then leave the fuel in the CTR TK unless it's absolutely neccessary to use it. If it is needed to make the nearest suitable field then the 3000 kg figure assumes a worst case scenario of an almost full CTR TK and allows for full transfer, or as much as possible, from CTR TK without risk of spillover into the surge tank. If there was significantly less than full fuel in the ctr tk and space was available for it in the inner tks then you could indeed select the CTR TK pumps on again but why bother unless you need the fuel. You're just wasting fuel out the leaky plumbing.
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Old 8th Jul 2009, 19:42
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"If it is needed to make the nearest suitable field then the 3000 kg figure assumes a worst case scenario of an almost full CTR TK and allows for full transfer, or as much as possible, from CTR TK without risk of spillover into the surge tank."

If I remember well, with mode sel auto and center tank pumps on there is no risk of spillover. Auto mode switches the pumps on and off to keep inners between full and underfull sensors. So using center tank fuel as much as possible is achieved by selecting center pumps on immediately with mode sel at auto.

Anyhow, I really enjoyed participating in this conversation. Fly safe.
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Old 18th Jul 2009, 17:44
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Just been reading this drill for my next sim and was also confused as to what the 3 ton condition was for.

I agree that the auto feed system would allow for the centre tank fuel to be used first. Maybe it is like this to allow for dispatch with manual only control of the centre tanks.
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Old 18th Jul 2009, 20:09
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I just read this, and not having a FCOM, I wonder if Airbus is trying to make one procedure for all small Airbusses.

Remember that on the A319 and A320 the centre tank pumps feed the engines. On the A321 they feed the wing tanks.
So maybe you wait for 3 tonnes, so that when you turn the pumps back on there is room in an A321 wing tank (no inners and outers on an A321!) to take the fuel?, and the A320 drill is kept the same?
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Old 21st Aug 2009, 16:52
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A320 Fuel Leak Procedure

Present Scenario: There's a fuel leak from the inner right side tank with no fuel in center tank. There`s a caution on QRH 2.08A "Do not open FUEL X FEED valve, even if requested by another ECAM procedure". That means that engine 2 will stop with fuel on the left side? The diagram on FCOM 1 is no so clear for me. I understand that X FEED means that engine is feed from the opossite tank and not right tank is feed from the left tank.
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Old 23rd Aug 2009, 10:12
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The right side leak is observed by indication of the right tank. It is entirely possible that the leak point is not in the tank itself but it in the feed line of engine no. 2. Opening the crossfeed could expose the left side fuel to the leak point resulting in unnecessary loss. Even if the right wing tank had been ruptured you still would have loss of left wing fuel through return flow via outer to inner right tank and then out - with open crossfeed.

In order to prevent these the Xfeed is kept closed and engine no 2 will starve out once right side fuel depletes through consumption and leak. You get to keep all available left side fuel for eng no 1 in the ensuing OEI case.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 07:27
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Any more theories on why the figure of 3000 Kg is specified?
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Old 23rd May 2012, 12:21
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Hi UTW,

Crikey - this is an old one you've dredged up.
Any more theories on why the figure of 3000 Kg is specified?
Probably a compromise in order to give you time for analysis and to comply with:

"FUEL MANAGEMENT
Tanks must be emptied in the following order :
center tank then wing tanks"
so as to take care of wing bending loads.

If the fuel tank is leaking, then best to use it rather than loose it, since you can't pump wing tank fuel into the centre tank and waste it like the Azores Transat.

Last edited by rudderrudderrat; 23rd May 2012 at 18:04. Reason: MEL correction.
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Old 24th May 2012, 06:08
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Thanks RRR,
Yeah...it is an old question.
It came up in the sim the other day but I didn't have an answer.
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Old 29th May 2012, 12:54
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Airbus itself was asked this question in 2007. Their engineers could not find any reason so they said this line will be removed unfortunately it is 2012 and it is still there. So you have to wait.
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Old 31st May 2012, 12:41
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Remember the HOWGOZIT?

I love using my HOWGOZIT?

Better on Long Haul than short haul as you may be devoid of time.

I lamenated mine and use a chinagraph on it then rub out the marks after use, with a wet finger.

This is a nice way of determining a leak before it becomes apparent in other areas.

I know you know, but for those who may have missed it in their studies;

draw a line vertically in the left hand column of A4 Landscape not Protrait -

and another line (the horizontal axis along the bottome of the graph to be . .

Left hand line (vertical left margin is your fuel in ,000kg or lbs if you are using lbs of fuel . . .

Along the bottom line write your distance in NM or KM if you must . . . (!)

the top of the left line is your total fuel on board minus taxi, takeoff, clb, or not if its a long step . .

in the cruise, soon, hopefully,

Draw a nice straight line from the fuel you have got at TOC all the way down to . .

Dest - at which point you intend to arrive at Dest with your pre-planned Dest fuel and all its reserves and all that.

As you proceed in your flight along track, check FOB against miles gone (along the bottom line in NM)

Cross the two points from the fuel amount FOB where it intersects the NM gone DIST and where the vertical and horizontal intersect draw a little asterisk or a tiny cross "x"

All along your route, your Straight line you drew diagonally from fuel line to Dest will have the little "x"s on it, above it or below it. If below it, of course, you are using more fuel than pre-planned if above the diag line then you are using less fuel for that geographical position. Removing the obvious considerations en-route such as head wind / tail wind or into the teeth of a Jestream, temp, etc., and all the rest of it - you can readily determine if you are illogically using too much fuel.

If consumption is high `despite` taking into consideration the above calcs and wind then - chances are you have a leak or a very thirsty engine. the latter may be determined by your GFF - of course.

You could also get dweeby and simply determine SFF by dividing total GFF by the Groundspeed to give you Kg per ground NM..... Kg/gnm or... lbs/gnm if you have a President.

Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 2nd Jun 2012 at 14:34.
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Old 20th Sep 2012, 13:42
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I just got the answer from Airbus" Why 3 tons on fuel leak procedure"

When a fuel leak is detected, but not located, the fuel leak procedure requests the flight crew to set to OFF the center tank pumps. In the case of a leak from the APU feeding line, or a leak from the engine feeding line, the center tank pumps are set to OFF and then to ON again when one wing tank contains less than 3 tons.

~~What happens in the case of an important leak?~~

In the case of a leak from the engine feed line located in an inner tank, fuel would spill from the center tank into this inner tank.
Should the engine feeding line breakage be important, the flight crew would not detect a leak, as the engine would shut down and/or there would be a “CTR TK PUMP 1(2) LO PR” caution triggered, leading to procedures that will result in setting to OFF the affected center tank pump, thus stopping this leak.

~~What happens in the case of a small leak?~~

The crew may detect the possibility of a leak in case of a less important breakage, if they notice that a fuel imbalance is developing.
On the affected side, the engine is still fed and no low pressure is detected on the center tank pump. Fuel spills from the center tank to the inner tank.
In this case, if the crew applies the fuel leak procedure, the center tank pumps are set to OFF. Both inner tanks will deplete at a similar rate (Case 2 of the fuel leak procedure).
When the fuel in one inner tank has depleted to 5 tons, the following will occur:
Per design, when one inner tank is less than 5 tons and there is fuel in the center tank, the “FUEL AUTO FEED FAULT” caution will trigger on the ECAM.
As the center tank pumps are OFF when the alert triggers, an action line on the ECAM will require the flight crew to set the center tank pumps to ON again.

~~Then, why is it necessary to have the “3 tons line” in the fuel leak procedure ?~~

As the crew has been told by the FUEL LEAK procedure to set the center tank pumps to OFF, it has been considered that some flight crews might be confused, and would disregard the “FUEL AUTO FEED FAULT” and adhere strictly to the FUEL LEAK paper procedure. So they would not start again the center tank pumps when the “FUEL AUTO FEED FAULT” caution triggers and leave them OFF.
The “3 tons line” in the FUEL LEAK procedure has been introduced to cover this case. This line guarantees that the flight crew will set the center tank pumps back to ON, even if they previously disregarded the “FUEL AUTO FEED FAULT” caution.
This will allow the consumption of the fuel remaining in the center tank.

~~Why wait for 3 tons?~~

The pumps could be set to ON earlier, but this value has been chosen to cover also the remote case of a subsequent failure of the full level sensor in the affected inner tank.
In such a failure case, if the center tank pumps are set to ON early, there could be fuel spilled overboard, due to the fuel going from center tank to the inner tank through the line breakage and the full level sensor being inoperative.
So a 3 tons conservative value has been chosen, because at that time there is sufficient space in the inner tank to allow a transfer of fuel from the center tank to the inner tank (through the breakage in the feeding pipe) with a reduced risk of overflow.
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Old 2nd Mar 2015, 17:09
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Todays observation,

A320's QRH
A fuel leak may be detected, if:
‐ The sum of FOB and FU significantly less than FOB at engine start or is decreasing, or
‐ A passenger observes fuel spray from engine/pylon or wingtip/sharklet, or
‐ The total fuel quantity is decreasing at an abnormal rate, or
‐ A fuel imbalance is developing, or
‐ Fuel quantity in a tank is decreasing too fast (leak from engine/pylon, or hole in a tank), or
‐ The Fuel flow is excessive (leak from engine), or
‐ Fuel is smelt in the cabin.
‐ The destination EFOB turns to amber on the F.PLN (or on the FUEL PRED) page, or
‐ ″DEST EFOB BELOW MIN″ appears on the MCDU scratchpad.


A321's QRH
A fuel leak may be detected, if:
‐ The sum of FOB and FU significantly less than FOB at engine start or is decreasing, or
‐ A passenger observes fuel spray from engine/pylon or wingtip/sharklet, or
‐ The total fuel quantity is decreasing at an abnormal rate, or
‐ A fuel imbalance is developing, or
‐ Fuel quantity in a tank is decreasing too fast (leak from engine/pylon, or hole in a tank), or
‐ A tank is overflowing (due to pipe rupture in a tank), or
‐ The Fuel flow is excessive (leak from engine), or
‐ Fuel is smelt in the cabin.
‐ The destination EFOB turns to amber on the F.PLN (or on the FUEL PRED) page, or
‐ ″DEST EFOB BELOW MIN″ appears on the MCDU scratchpad.


Item in bold, is missing in the A320's. Mindblowing...

Just thinking that this note was supposed to be for the A320's fleet and not the A321s?

Putting facts down,

We are talking about fuel from the center tank supposed to flow to an engine, and due to a rupture it finally fills the respective inner tank with the risk or overflowing.

In my opinion, such a rupture would be possible in the 320's only.

A rupture in the pipes that could result in overflowing inner tank fuel is not possible in 321's, as 321's dont have such pipes in the inner tanks. Fuel is transfered with the help of jet pumps, and engines are fed directly from the wing tank pumps.

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