'Toxic' cabin air found in new plane study - Telegraph
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'Identify the substances in a fume event'
Tocamak,
Cranfield University were very simply asked 'to identify the substances in a fume event' in 2007.
This is not rocket science.
The continued absence of this factual data - does tend to make many people wonder why it has not been published?
My bet is that it will be published on the UK General Election day. 6th May 2010.
That's what I would do.
DB
Cranfield University were very simply asked 'to identify the substances in a fume event' in 2007.
This is not rocket science.
The continued absence of this factual data - does tend to make many people wonder why it has not been published?
My bet is that it will be published on the UK General Election day. 6th May 2010.
That's what I would do.
DB
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Contaminated air
I found out recently BALPA know that no UK airline has done a risk assessment regarding toxic fume exposure on airlines, COSHH regulations not being enforced.
Come on.... What is a union for if not to protect the members. Come on BALPA be a union..... start protecting the workers.
Come on.... What is a union for if not to protect the members. Come on BALPA be a union..... start protecting the workers.
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Toxic, Dangerous, nuisance.....
Airlines: Gift im Flieger? (engl. Version) - markt - WDR Fernsehen
In this German TV report of 29th March 2010:
The oil company admits the oil fumes are TOXIC.
The aircraft manufacturer admits they are DANGEROUS.
Whilst the airline admits they are a .......NUISANCE.
They would say that - but which is it - taking the precautionary principle?
DB
In this German TV report of 29th March 2010:
The oil company admits the oil fumes are TOXIC.
The aircraft manufacturer admits they are DANGEROUS.
Whilst the airline admits they are a .......NUISANCE.
They would say that - but which is it - taking the precautionary principle?
DB
Airlines: Gift im Flieger? (engl. Version) - markt - WDR Fernsehen
In this German TV report of 29th March 2010:
The oil company admits the oil fumes are TOXIC.
The aircraft manufacturer admits they are DANGEROUS.
Whilst the airline admits they are a .......NUISANCE.
They would say that - but which is it - taking the precautionary principle?
In this German TV report of 29th March 2010:
The oil company admits the oil fumes are TOXIC.
The aircraft manufacturer admits they are DANGEROUS.
Whilst the airline admits they are a .......NUISANCE.
They would say that - but which is it - taking the precautionary principle?
It's like smoking or using tobacco. When does it become toxic?
Life is full of toxicity if things get out of balance vs individual tollerance
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Yes, the 146 of which I have no knowledge whatsoever except for that one aircraft's reputation for industrial smells in the cabin which seem to set it aside from any other western passenger jet.
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Court Judgement
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David Learmount's BLOG
Behind the toxic smokescreen - Learmount
"BALPA must have as a primary objective to keep its pilots employed. If a few get sick well so be it, we are not a union - we are an association to further our members needs and salary. Passengers are not anything to do with us."
This comment sounds familiar....until the mindless author gets sick.
DB
"BALPA must have as a primary objective to keep its pilots employed. If a few get sick well so be it, we are not a union - we are an association to further our members needs and salary. Passengers are not anything to do with us."
This comment sounds familiar....until the mindless author gets sick.
DB
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Filtering ain't so easy
Filtering whatever suspended particulates there may be is one thing, but the real problem is that the troublemakers aren't IMHO particulates. By the time they reach your nose, I presume it's all gaseous. Given the flowrates for cabin air exchange, you may need a fairly sizable organic vapor absorbing cartridge. Think lavatory-sized, to be replaced daily if there is a significant sustained presence of volatile organics. Alternatively, have two cartridges, and switch the flow from primary to alternate once you start smelling things. I have never smelled anything in-flight, luckily, only on the ground during engine startup, so I wasn't even aware that organic vapors are an in-flight problem! One learns every day.
Alas, my personal biggest concern would be mold in the evaporators of the air conditioner packs -- both on-plane and ground equipment.
Alas, my personal biggest concern would be mold in the evaporators of the air conditioner packs -- both on-plane and ground equipment.
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Recals filters are not VOC filters!
"The recirc filters (provided they are clean and serviceable) are capable of removing SARS virus and similar, suspended in the cabin air. How can they 'not' remove these chemicals ?" They are particulate filters. The bad organics are gaseous once they reach your nose.
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VOC senstivity varies
I should also point out that individual sensitivity to VOCs varies, perhaps by an order of magnitude in terms of concentration for healthy people, and even more if you're already sick or presensitized.
As for presensitization, here's an anecdote: When I was a kid, I always had to take anti-nausea drugs before flying, otherwise I'd throw up and be miserable all the time (motion sickness!). Before I started taking those drugs, I'd sometimes make it through the flight, feeling quite ill but not quite having to use the barf bag. Then we'd land, go through all the motions, get out of the airport, and get on a city bus that was leaking just a teeny weeny bit of exhaust into the cabin. Bam, throw up right then and there, before the thing would even get in motion!
As for presensitization, here's an anecdote: When I was a kid, I always had to take anti-nausea drugs before flying, otherwise I'd throw up and be miserable all the time (motion sickness!). Before I started taking those drugs, I'd sometimes make it through the flight, feeling quite ill but not quite having to use the barf bag. Then we'd land, go through all the motions, get out of the airport, and get on a city bus that was leaking just a teeny weeny bit of exhaust into the cabin. Bam, throw up right then and there, before the thing would even get in motion!
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David Learmount's BLOG
This comment sounds familiar....until the mindless author gets sick
However the parallels the blog draws between the tobacco industry and the aviation one are a bit tenuous. When litigation finally succeded in the mid 90's it was uncovered that there were numerous memos flying around that showed the industry was well aware of the damaging nature of tobacco smoking. The industry denied any link throughout and actively worked against any researcher who took a contrary view. Richard Doll showed in 1954 that there was a link yet the industry tried to rubbish his research at every turn. My view is that the airline industry and the campaigners are stuck in the position of not having enough evidence to show a definitive link as there has been no peer reviewed research which does show this. Individuals may win court cases based on law intended for other industries but no wide-srpead precedent has been set saying that the aviation industry is aware of the problem but are actively working to cover it up.
Please note that I am not trying to say there is or is not a problem here other than at the moment there is not enough research done which can be used one way or the other.
Last edited by tocamak; 11th Apr 2010 at 14:31. Reason: spelling
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More research......
Tocamak,
There has been enough international research done (and cover up's) to conclude that breathing toxic oil fumes in a confined space will cause ill health.
The only slight difficulty is that some people can't seem to apply this simple logic to the interior of a passenger airliner.
Until now.
Comment: clearing the toxic air
DB
There has been enough international research done (and cover up's) to conclude that breathing toxic oil fumes in a confined space will cause ill health.
The only slight difficulty is that some people can't seem to apply this simple logic to the interior of a passenger airliner.
Until now.
Comment: clearing the toxic air
DB
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American Airlines emergency landing
The pilots decided to land in Iceland due to a strange smell on board which had already caused some passengers to feel ill.
14 April 2010
American Airlines makes emergency landing in Iceland | IceNews - Daily News
14 April 2010
American Airlines makes emergency landing in Iceland | IceNews - Daily News
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BALPA - All for one and one for all?
"BALPA must have as a primary objective to keep its pilots employed. If a few get sick well so be it, we are not a union - we are an association to further our members needs and salary. Passengers are not anything to do with us."
Good luck to all - stay safe and don't let the bxxxers - grind you down?
DB
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Five years ago yesterday after their conference on cabin air quality, BALPA General Secretary Jim McAuslan said in his closing speech “Is there a problem? The answer is quite clear – Yes. Story after story, study after study, testimony after testimony from across the world and from other industries with similar exposures, show that chemicals exposures of the type experienced by workers in the aviation industry cause health problems.” and pledged to get it all sorted out.
These days the BALPA line is “There is no evidence at present for a link to long term health effects but research concerning fume events continues.”
Oh yes, research. The great thing about it is that when you’ve finished it, you can call for more research, so you never actually need to admit there's a problem or do anything about it.
Video: McAuslan’s conference closing speech.
These days the BALPA line is “There is no evidence at present for a link to long term health effects but research concerning fume events continues.”
Oh yes, research. The great thing about it is that when you’ve finished it, you can call for more research, so you never actually need to admit there's a problem or do anything about it.
Video: McAuslan’s conference closing speech.
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I was there at the conference 5 years ago, that speech is PRICELESS!
Shame on you Jimbo for allowing Martin and Sandy to "Encourage" you into your U Turn.
What has been achieved 5 years on?
Bu@@er All.............
Shame on you Jimbo for allowing Martin and Sandy to "Encourage" you into your U Turn.
What has been achieved 5 years on?
Bu@@er All.............
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German TV reports DC8 & B 787 & Bleed air....
Two German TV reports (English subtitles) which provide a useful comparison between the DC8, B 787 & bleed air.
YouTube - Airlines: Gift im Flieger? - Teil 2 von 2
YouTube - Airlines: Poison in aircraft?
As it says on a cigarette packet " Smoking seriously harms you and others around you" (except for oil smoke in an airliner)....
DB
YouTube - Airlines: Gift im Flieger? - Teil 2 von 2
YouTube - Airlines: Poison in aircraft?
As it says on a cigarette packet " Smoking seriously harms you and others around you" (except for oil smoke in an airliner)....
DB
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BALPA and CAQ
The Aerotoxic Association are also completely unimpressed by BALPA’s continued refusal to do anything and have filed a formal complaint. Not only that, they even refuse to inform their members of the dangers. Who knows what the internal politics are or what cosy deals they have going on with the airlines, regulators or research establishments, but it’s not on – aircrew and passenger health continue to be ruined while BALPA continue to do less than nothing.