Jet A-1 in diesel car?
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you can use Jet A-1 in aviation diesel engines. Like the Thielert. I assume a diesel's a diesel, so i don't see why you couldn't use jet A-1 (technically) in a car. However it would be very illegal (i think it's custom's and excise that would get you on this one), just as it's illegal to use agricultural diesel in a car. The only difference being a different colourant, oh yeah and agi diesel's about half the price.
I've not tried myself (despite the Jet A1 sticker on the filler cap of my Diesel car 
), but have discussed this before with a few engine experts.
The concensus seems to be that if you have to, you can. But, that automotive Diesel engines rely for lubrication of moving parts (particularly fuel pumps) upon impurities that exist in DERV but not in JET-A1. The concensus is that if you want to routinely run a Diesel car on JET-A1, you need to introduce some lubricant - such as for example 2-stroke oil. Which luubricant would be best, and how much, has never been clearly established - at least not by me.
G
), but have discussed this before with a few engine experts.The concensus seems to be that if you have to, you can. But, that automotive Diesel engines rely for lubrication of moving parts (particularly fuel pumps) upon impurities that exist in DERV but not in JET-A1. The concensus is that if you want to routinely run a Diesel car on JET-A1, you need to introduce some lubricant - such as for example 2-stroke oil. Which luubricant would be best, and how much, has never been clearly established - at least not by me.
G
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Hi guys,
I have been running my diesel car (MB300E TDI '94) on A1 for about 75000 km now. without 2 stroke oil, and without any problems whatsoever. I too was recommended to add 2 stroke oil when I first started doing it , but I quickly discovered that all it did was to clog the nozzles. I do belive though, that it is dependant on the engine make and model, I have seen a '88 golf dielsel give up, ok it was a ramp vehicle so it was NOT maintained.
Brgds
Doc
I have been running my diesel car (MB300E TDI '94) on A1 for about 75000 km now. without 2 stroke oil, and without any problems whatsoever. I too was recommended to add 2 stroke oil when I first started doing it , but I quickly discovered that all it did was to clog the nozzles. I do belive though, that it is dependant on the engine make and model, I have seen a '88 golf dielsel give up, ok it was a ramp vehicle so it was NOT maintained.
Brgds
Doc
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I work with 2 guys who have been running their Diesel Jetta's off Jet A/A1 for years. They add oil to the mixture every 4 th fill up. They told me that in the past the only problem they had was fuel pump damage due to the very dry Jet fuel, thus adding the oil has apparently remedied that problem.
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I have owned a couple of VW Jetta (N. American Bora) TDIs.
My current car is an '04 Jetta TDI wagon with the new unit injection pump ("PumpeDüse") engine. My previous one, a '99, had the older rotary injection pump.
I would be worried about using Jet A1 in a car with a high pressure injection pump due to lack of lubricity of the fuel (namely, from sulphur). The pumps aren't cheap, they go for around $3,000 CDN, I believe. In Europe though, I believe diesel fuel is low-sulphur. So perhaps European diesels are set up to handle it. N. American fuel is high-sulphur, which is great for the pump, but not so great for meeting emissions regulations, hence the paucity of diesels over here (for cars, VW only until this year, the Merc is coming back with diesels).
You need to save a lot of money to risk a $3k injection pump!
VW will void the warranty if you use N. American biodiesel in a TDI, presumably due to the possible effects on the injection pump (or pumps on the unit-injector models).
For those of you who drive VW TDIs, a great resource is www.tdiclub.com, somebody there has probably tried it or researched it. Incidentally don't many airport diesel vehicles run off the dregs of Jet A1 that doesn't make into the air?
Mike
C-GTLM
My current car is an '04 Jetta TDI wagon with the new unit injection pump ("PumpeDüse") engine. My previous one, a '99, had the older rotary injection pump.
I would be worried about using Jet A1 in a car with a high pressure injection pump due to lack of lubricity of the fuel (namely, from sulphur). The pumps aren't cheap, they go for around $3,000 CDN, I believe. In Europe though, I believe diesel fuel is low-sulphur. So perhaps European diesels are set up to handle it. N. American fuel is high-sulphur, which is great for the pump, but not so great for meeting emissions regulations, hence the paucity of diesels over here (for cars, VW only until this year, the Merc is coming back with diesels).
You need to save a lot of money to risk a $3k injection pump!
VW will void the warranty if you use N. American biodiesel in a TDI, presumably due to the possible effects on the injection pump (or pumps on the unit-injector models).
For those of you who drive VW TDIs, a great resource is www.tdiclub.com, somebody there has probably tried it or researched it. Incidentally don't many airport diesel vehicles run off the dregs of Jet A1 that doesn't make into the air?
Mike
C-GTLM
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I have had diesel cars for about 25 years now and at times I ran Avjet-A in all of them. I have not experienced any problems. We sell Phillips Fuel which has Prist blended in it so I used it to control the crud that grows in the fuel tank. I noticed that my fuel economy suffered a bit as the kerosine is a lighter and does not contain as many BTU's per gallon. As a child I remember the busses around Idlewyld all used to smell like jet exaust so I guess they ran it there. I ran our fuel trucks and aircraft tow tractors at National Jets at FLL for years also without a problem, so I think a little kerosine here and there isn't a bad thing.
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I know some people running their diesels on Jet A1 for years without problems, I even know one person who runs his car on the fuel drained from aircrafts and helicopters during checks and maintenance (THAT is real enviromental friendly recycling 
).
Thielert had to change the high pressure common rail pump on the Centurion engines to make them work with Jet A1, due to the much lower viscosity sealing was the problem, so there was a remarkable ammount of leak fuel in the pump housing to be drained, and the maximum fuel pressure was not maintained at full throttle and low rpm. Lubrication was obviously no problem.
).Thielert had to change the high pressure common rail pump on the Centurion engines to make them work with Jet A1, due to the much lower viscosity sealing was the problem, so there was a remarkable ammount of leak fuel in the pump housing to be drained, and the maximum fuel pressure was not maintained at full throttle and low rpm. Lubrication was obviously no problem.
We used to run the glider winches at Wattisham on scrap Avtur blended with whatver the hydraulic fluid was used in F4s. Seemed to work OK!
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A mate has 'seen a letter' from a chemist working for an oil company stating that to add 1/2% by weight of either old engine sump oil or old gearbox oil to A1 will make it the same as diesel.
He has run his troop carrier for years by using (contaminated-drained from the wing) A1 without problem. Reckons going up a hill under load a lower gear is required.Thats all.
Mariner also make K outboard engines. Start on 130 (i mean petrol) and then above idle switch to A1 (i mean 'K'erosene). 30-1 oil mix though.
He has run his troop carrier for years by using (contaminated-drained from the wing) A1 without problem. Reckons going up a hill under load a lower gear is required.Thats all.
Mariner also make K outboard engines. Start on 130 (i mean petrol) and then above idle switch to A1 (i mean 'K'erosene). 30-1 oil mix though.
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I don't know about autos, but two friends heated their house for two winters on the "contaminated" (i.e. drained from wings during inspections) fuel that was carelessly left out next to a maintenance hangar on a regular basis. It saved the airline having to pay to have it handled and recycled and they didn't freeze to death due to lack of cash to fill up their furnace!
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I think this thread is absolutely disgraceful.
Only one of the above posters has had the decency to mention Customs and Excise.
How can these people cheat dear old C & E and sleep at night??!!
Only one of the above posters has had the decency to mention Customs and Excise.
How can these people cheat dear old C & E and sleep at night??!!
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 21st May 2004 at 22:22.
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Jet fuel in Diesel engines
Many years ago the US Navy wanted to standardize fuel for jets and Diesel engines. They ran a lot of tests and they gave up on the idea because of failures of the fuel pumps and on unit injectors. They tried putting lubricants in the fuel but they generated a lot of smoke.
Avoid imitations
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I recall an RAF Warrant Officer being Court Martialled (in Germany, about 1982) for disposing of "unwanted" AVTUR in his married quarter central heating tank after helicopter exercises. He was a bit blatant about it though, using his army driver and Land Rover to deliver it! He didn't even wait until dark...
I have been recently told by a diesel van specialist that today's low sulphur diesel blends are hard on injectors, so maybe it's not so different to use kero based fuels after all.
However, I also think it is very environmentally sound to dispose of contaminated fuel by thoughtfully putting it in a car diesel tank. Must get a diesel car one day.....
I have been recently told by a diesel van specialist that today's low sulphur diesel blends are hard on injectors, so maybe it's not so different to use kero based fuels after all.
However, I also think it is very environmentally sound to dispose of contaminated fuel by thoughtfully putting it in a car diesel tank. Must get a diesel car one day.....
