26yr old Captain - 19yr old Co-Pilot
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They sent crews to same age to war 70 years ago. They flew in overloaded bombers with basic navigation equipment, with people trying to stop them all the way there and back.
Air conditioned cockpit, good communications, radar, GPS, only the occasional SAM to dodge, what's the big deal?
Air conditioned cockpit, good communications, radar, GPS, only the occasional SAM to dodge, what's the big deal?
I know they have passed exams etc and I am sure they are both technically competent but I'm sorry both are too young. He is still a teenager for pete's sake (and looks just like my 15-year old step-daughter's BF!)
For me 21 should be the minimum legal age for an ATPL and 8,000 hours minimum for Captain - or at the very least a combined total of 8,000 hours experience on the flightdeck.
For me 21 should be the minimum legal age for an ATPL and 8,000 hours minimum for Captain - or at the very least a combined total of 8,000 hours experience on the flightdeck.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Jet pipe
Experience is something you cannot learn but experience can also lead to complacency so while a Captain without experience maybe more cautious the Captain with experience has to guard against being less cautious
A less experienced Captain may give weather a larger Berth while the more experienced may take short cuts as he can read and interpret weather ahead better and its not just whats on the radar screen
I knew one Captain who could almost smell ICE where it would form, how fast and where it would not form. He was uncannily right and acted accordingly the same with turbulence. he knew how to get out and when to expect it
The low time Captains may not have quite that level of experience but also fly with a touch more caution which probably balances out
Experience is something you cannot learn but experience can also lead to complacency so while a Captain without experience maybe more cautious the Captain with experience has to guard against being less cautious
A less experienced Captain may give weather a larger Berth while the more experienced may take short cuts as he can read and interpret weather ahead better and its not just whats on the radar screen
I knew one Captain who could almost smell ICE where it would form, how fast and where it would not form. He was uncannily right and acted accordingly the same with turbulence. he knew how to get out and when to expect it
The low time Captains may not have quite that level of experience but also fly with a touch more caution which probably balances out
Pegase Driver
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GOULI :
and the attrition rate was 1/3 , even half on some types in space of 2 years.
On the B17 ops ( well documented) life expectancy per airframe was 13 missions.Roughly half due to the Germans, the other half due to in-flight collisions ,nav errors on way back and attempts to land in bad weather. It was even worse in 1944-45 for the Germans where their fighters attrition rate soared to between 1 and 5 missions per airframe due to inexperienced pilots.
But we are comparing apples and pears . You can learn to technically fly any type of a/c in 50h of sim , the WW2 kids and any MPL today proves it.
You cannot shortcut experience.
They sent crews to same age to war 70 years ago. They flew in overloaded bombers with basic navigation equipment, with people trying to stop them all the way there and back.
On the B17 ops ( well documented) life expectancy per airframe was 13 missions.Roughly half due to the Germans, the other half due to in-flight collisions ,nav errors on way back and attempts to land in bad weather. It was even worse in 1944-45 for the Germans where their fighters attrition rate soared to between 1 and 5 missions per airframe due to inexperienced pilots.
But we are comparing apples and pears . You can learn to technically fly any type of a/c in 50h of sim , the WW2 kids and any MPL today proves it.
You cannot shortcut experience.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
I'm sure they're both good at their jobs; after all, they are licenced, and she has passed the command course. However, I'm not sure they should be crewed together.
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From my own experience, the ones neglecting safety, not sticking to procedures, having bad CRM, having rusty flying skills, being infantile and not taking the job seriously have all been older men often with decades in the left seat. Most of them with experience surpassed by few on this forum.
I ain't buying it!
I ain't buying it!
the ones neglecting safety, not sticking to procedures, having bad CRM, having rusty flying skills, being infantile and not taking the job seriously have all been older men often with decades in the left seat
Really? Some of the worse behaviour, I've seen, especially when dealing with Cabin Crew, has come from some in the RHS and the perps weren't always male..but one thing I have learnt over the decades is never ever generalise, because most pilots I fly with of both genders are darned good.
As far as the point of the OP is concerned, the lady has passed the required checks and course so good luck to her...I'm not so sure about the issue of the combined experience level.
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Maybe they will scrap the mandatory retirement age just so as to level out the playing field with all other things such as gender, colour, race, disability, obesity, anorexia, apparel, facial hair, religious persuasion, the list is endless. So that we may all say, all things being equal I too can be a captain, with or without time served. Bad thing this seniority list thing, must mean old, grey hair and wrinkles, walking sticks and things alike. I wonder what Sully would make of it all.
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Such is the nature of this industry there's a decent chance that she'll end up one day working in BA/Virgin/EK again as First Officer for a Captain who's 5 years younger but is currently an FO in those airlines. It's great to get a quick upgrade and congrats to her but can one really do that short haul job with all those early starts for 40 years?
Not easy to think ahead that far in younger years when most of us subconsciously believe we'll never get old.
Not easy to think ahead that far in younger years when most of us subconsciously believe we'll never get old.
In the early 1990's an American cargo outfit had a B707 Captain aged 21. Well done to the young lady at EZ but 26 is rather ancient considering the above and bomber pilots in WW2 for eg.
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Good luck to the whipersnappers, that's the way it is these days.
My only worry would be despatching either down the back on a Friday night IBZ or a delay of 6 hours when it all goes pete tongue wrong
My only worry would be despatching either down the back on a Friday night IBZ or a delay of 6 hours when it all goes pete tongue wrong
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For me 21 should be the minimum legal age for an ATPL and 8,000 hours minimum for Captain - or at the very least a combined total of 8,000 hours experience
Passengers just need to get re-accustomed to paying more for their flight than their Uber to the airport!!!
Good luck with that one!!
People get what they pay for. But when they pay for their ticket, they don't care what they're getting!
Last edited by 4468; 27th Sep 2016 at 21:30.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
In my experience, male pilots fell into three groups. Bloody good, mediocre, bloody dreadful. Female pilots only into the two groups at either end. I'm happy to say that the vast majority that I came across fell into the bloody good category.
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Doors to Automatic
It is;
Airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) common requirements | UK Civil Aviation Authority
For me 21 should be the minimum legal age for an ATPL
Airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) common requirements | UK Civil Aviation Authority
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It is not always technical when things go wrong during a normal duty. I find that 90% of times the challenges are with human beings somewhere in the system.
Life experience and years of maturity is often the best tool to sort these problems and challenges to the best outcome, but this is not a subject when doing a Command upgrade.
Good luck to this - i am sure - lovely girl.
Life experience and years of maturity is often the best tool to sort these problems and challenges to the best outcome, but this is not a subject when doing a Command upgrade.
Good luck to this - i am sure - lovely girl.
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Well done on getting the left seat! Nothing remarkable however at 26. I know from previous that it takes a lot of experience to handle a two bar FO, who despite best efforts needs lots of minding, and is better served by senior captains. As a new captain her day out in the left seat is a lot less stressful when accompanied by more senior FOs. Great news story, but humble opinion is that low and low does not work, many airlines make sure they are not a combination! PR over sense?