LPMA approach 737 NG
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 36
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LPMA approach 737 NG
I'm looking for 737 NG pilots to kindly help me with this approach for my PMDG 737 NGX.
It mentions in the general instructions to maintain 1140 ft on the downwind, why doesn't it mention to maintain 940 ft (minimums) or am i right in thinking if the weather or ceiling is above minimums, the pilot can have the DA or the BARO mins off? and just maintain 1140 ft untill, D6 FUN 900?
Any help or tips will be appreciated. I'm very thirsty for knowledge so just fire ahead, thanks.
It mentions in the general instructions to maintain 1140 ft on the downwind, why doesn't it mention to maintain 940 ft (minimums) or am i right in thinking if the weather or ceiling is above minimums, the pilot can have the DA or the BARO mins off? and just maintain 1140 ft untill, D6 FUN 900?
Any help or tips will be appreciated. I'm very thirsty for knowledge so just fire ahead, thanks.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: london
Age: 51
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Madeira
I do not know navtech but put it and its ilk well to one side. The authority is the aip which in this instance is found at www.nav.pt/ais and nowhere else. You will need a password but I know of no hindrance in getting one. Pay particular heed to the pdf AD 2.24.04-1 and indeed the whole shebang.
As regards the whys and wherefores the above pdf and the ruling slope of 1.2% gives the game away what you are trying to achieve which is not to hit Obstacle 86 at 3.5nm from touchdown nor the ridge at 2650ft to the left whilst keeping in mind TDZE of 144ft. Also the advice of 190kias is basically sound as an upper limit but do not fall below 160 kias. You mustn't be too fast nor too slow.
If you bought the Madeira add-on be aware that they adopted a much higher TDZE for graphics reasons!! Basically the beautiful geography poked up through the concrete so they arbitrarily "lifted" the aerodrome level substantially. Ouch. Never trust a sim.
No worries. You will find LL01, the first of the 13 running rabbits at N32 39 51.25 W016 48 13.48 and DME06 will be already in your PMDG database which I have not got. If it isn't add N32 39 25.34 W016 45 26.68 as well as FUN212/8 and FUN220/8. You may call these D220H and D212H only in a sim because I have no idea how the goniometers at Funchal are really set.
Now do this at home but leave it there. Work backwards from whatever the lying sods told you was TDZE [ie land there and find out!] and adopt a slopes of 1.4 degrees through the above two created "fixes" and you will greet 6DME GELO, LL01 et seq then ROSRO and smack down perfectly in the lateral and vertical sense.
Need I say this is not for real? Yes because there are numpties. I don't think I can help more than this.
You certainly pick an adventurous pastime.
Good Luck.
As regards the whys and wherefores the above pdf and the ruling slope of 1.2% gives the game away what you are trying to achieve which is not to hit Obstacle 86 at 3.5nm from touchdown nor the ridge at 2650ft to the left whilst keeping in mind TDZE of 144ft. Also the advice of 190kias is basically sound as an upper limit but do not fall below 160 kias. You mustn't be too fast nor too slow.
If you bought the Madeira add-on be aware that they adopted a much higher TDZE for graphics reasons!! Basically the beautiful geography poked up through the concrete so they arbitrarily "lifted" the aerodrome level substantially. Ouch. Never trust a sim.
No worries. You will find LL01, the first of the 13 running rabbits at N32 39 51.25 W016 48 13.48 and DME06 will be already in your PMDG database which I have not got. If it isn't add N32 39 25.34 W016 45 26.68 as well as FUN212/8 and FUN220/8. You may call these D220H and D212H only in a sim because I have no idea how the goniometers at Funchal are really set.
Now do this at home but leave it there. Work backwards from whatever the lying sods told you was TDZE [ie land there and find out!] and adopt a slopes of 1.4 degrees through the above two created "fixes" and you will greet 6DME GELO, LL01 et seq then ROSRO and smack down perfectly in the lateral and vertical sense.
Need I say this is not for real? Yes because there are numpties. I don't think I can help more than this.
You certainly pick an adventurous pastime.
Good Luck.
Hi Driver,
The basis of it is that if you are visual above MDA then it is recommended to level at 1140 feet until D6 FUN (bear in mind you only have to be at GELO at 850). However is the weather is not good you can descend to 940 ft circling altitude which will improve your chances of getting visual.
The basis of it is that if you are visual above MDA then it is recommended to level at 1140 feet until D6 FUN (bear in mind you only have to be at GELO at 850). However is the weather is not good you can descend to 940 ft circling altitude which will improve your chances of getting visual.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 36
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First of all thankyou for the replys, i have a better idea now on the approach and minimums.
A pilot did private mail me his notes on Madeira and it does mention at D6 outbound, to have the landing flaps selected and start the turn, as already mentioned by LSM
So why would i wait till D6.5 or D7 for the turn? I know once you turn you align yourself with the white banana sheds which you can see on my addon scenery, Madeira.
I do insert a waypoint after FUN - FUN212/6 on the outbound and this is my turning point.
I also inster GELO 0850 ft before the RWY and ROSRO.
Today its been very gusty but within limits showing on the chart. I had to configure quite early than the usual inbound FUN D7 flaps 1, D6 flaps 5 etc as i've had strong tailwinds of 27kts.
A pilot did private mail me his notes on Madeira and it does mention at D6 outbound, to have the landing flaps selected and start the turn, as already mentioned by LSM
So why would i wait till D6.5 or D7 for the turn? I know once you turn you align yourself with the white banana sheds which you can see on my addon scenery, Madeira.
I do insert a waypoint after FUN - FUN212/6 on the outbound and this is my turning point.
I also inster GELO 0850 ft before the RWY and ROSRO.
Today its been very gusty but within limits showing on the chart. I had to configure quite early than the usual inbound FUN D7 flaps 1, D6 flaps 5 etc as i've had strong tailwinds of 27kts.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 36
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also can i add, what waypoint(s) will i change to 1140 or 1200 to round off? The MAPt D3.6 FUN or the D6 waypoint FUN 212/6 outbound? Or both?
I've only been changing the D6 waypoint after FUN. And select V/S to 300 FPM after FUN VOR.
I've only been changing the D6 waypoint after FUN. And select V/S to 300 FPM after FUN VOR.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well our procedure is to be at flap 15 and gear down after the FUN and as we start the turn to select F25 then 30.
We aim to overfly GELO heading north and delaying the turn until 7d means the height/distance matches up better and you get more time. You can end up too tight if the wind is westerly/north westerly as well, which it often is. We also delay starting the descent as there's no need to start down as you start to turn as you're only having to lose 350', at most, in 3 or 4 miles.
Are you able to draw fix radials on your FMS? If you can I'd put GELO with the 180 radial and fly up that to GELO.
We aim to overfly GELO heading north and delaying the turn until 7d means the height/distance matches up better and you get more time. You can end up too tight if the wind is westerly/north westerly as well, which it often is. We also delay starting the descent as there's no need to start down as you start to turn as you're only having to lose 350', at most, in 3 or 4 miles.
Are you able to draw fix radials on your FMS? If you can I'd put GELO with the 180 radial and fly up that to GELO.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 36
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok thats good to know i'll try that way out and go for flaps 15 gear down at FUN VOR.
Ok so D6.5 f25 D7 f30 then start the turn!
When would you switch of the FDs and A/T plus A/P?
Yes i can enter that in the fix page and have a radial coming from it. So i'll turn and follow that radial then?
I usually use the position trend vector for the turns have that point to GELO etc after the turn.
Ok so D6.5 f25 D7 f30 then start the turn!
When would you switch of the FDs and A/T plus A/P?
Yes i can enter that in the fix page and have a radial coming from it. So i'll turn and follow that radial then?
I usually use the position trend vector for the turns have that point to GELO etc after the turn.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally I'll start turning at 6.5/7 then go for F25 and F30. Establish on that 180 radial from GELO and then start descending, possibly earlier depending on wind. Once descending AP and AT off and recycle the FDs. At GELO turn right sharpish as you MUST keep the lead in lights to the left and increase ROD slightly, you can use the PAPIs from here even though the brief says you can't see them.
Once you try it like that you'll appreciate the slightly wider pattern and needing a shallower turn at GELO as it gives you a bit more wiggle room.
Make sense?
Once you try it like that you'll appreciate the slightly wider pattern and needing a shallower turn at GELO as it gives you a bit more wiggle room.
Make sense?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 36
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok so while turning at 6.5 to 7 D go for flaps 25 then 30. Then start to descend when on the 180 radial to GELO to cross at 850 ft
But that makes sense, yes! Thanks
What crossing alt would you consider? Will i go whats on the chart i attached above? And fly level 1140 after the MAPt?
But that makes sense, yes! Thanks
What crossing alt would you consider? Will i go whats on the chart i attached above? And fly level 1140 after the MAPt?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 36
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are spot on...well of course, your the pro 
i inserted a waypoint at D7 from FUN and began that turn towards GELO and also had a 180 radial from it and you can see on my snapshot the position trend indicator showing it'll join that radial nicely.
Also have i done this right, i set rwy heading 051 and set 900 in the MCP window with V/S 300 ? after i level off will i turn the AP and AT off and recycle the FDs?
i inserted a waypoint at D7 from FUN and began that turn towards GELO and also had a 180 radial from it and you can see on my snapshot the position trend indicator showing it'll join that radial nicely.Also have i done this right, i set rwy heading 051 and set 900 in the MCP window with V/S 300 ? after i level off will i turn the AP and AT off and recycle the FDs?
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks good. PM receivd, I'll see what I can do.
The heading bug is fine although at some point I'd select something more useful for the missed approach.
The MCP altitude needs to be set to the missed approach altitude after you're level at 1200.
The VS, whatever you need.
You don't want to use the AP to level at 900, the trick is to make it a continuous descent from 1200 to landing as flying level in landing config isn't a good idea. So manual flying from when you're fully configured at the latest I'd suggest and lots of eyes out/eyes in to make sure you meet the altitudes at GELO and ROSARIO. Probably I bit trickier on a flight sim though.
The heading bug is fine although at some point I'd select something more useful for the missed approach.
The MCP altitude needs to be set to the missed approach altitude after you're level at 1200.
The VS, whatever you need.
You don't want to use the AP to level at 900, the trick is to make it a continuous descent from 1200 to landing as flying level in landing config isn't a good idea. So manual flying from when you're fully configured at the latest I'd suggest and lots of eyes out/eyes in to make sure you meet the altitudes at GELO and ROSARIO. Probably I bit trickier on a flight sim though.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 36
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, really appreciate your time and effort 
Ok i'll add that to my notes. Maybe the 172 radial to FUSUL missed approach waypoint, turn right.
Yeh thats something i forgot, i usually roll the MCP alt up quickly to 3000 just before reaching 1200.
Do you recommend setting my HDG bank selector to max 30*? instead of 25*.
Ok so once level at 1200 and at D7 begin the turn and descending with approx 300 fpm? then turn the AP and AT off and recycle the FDs? will i do this during the turn or wait till wings level as the flaps will be extending?
I have this hardware called Track IR, it clips on my headset, so where your head moves it moves in the virtual cockpit so i can even look at the back LEDs! gives you that head movement in the cockpit.
Ok i'll add that to my notes. Maybe the 172 radial to FUSUL missed approach waypoint, turn right.
Yeh thats something i forgot, i usually roll the MCP alt up quickly to 3000 just before reaching 1200.
Do you recommend setting my HDG bank selector to max 30*? instead of 25*.
Ok so once level at 1200 and at D7 begin the turn and descending with approx 300 fpm? then turn the AP and AT off and recycle the FDs? will i do this during the turn or wait till wings level as the flaps will be extending?
I have this hardware called Track IR, it clips on my headset, so where your head moves it moves in the virtual cockpit so i can even look at the back LEDs! gives you that head movement in the cockpit.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can ditch the AP whenever you like really you just don't want to be using it any where near GELO. Personally, again, I turn it off once we are passed the missed approach point.
If the weather is good then there's no need to race down to 1200 and what I do is aim to be at 1200 just before I start turning towards GELO. If the weather is cack then aim to be at 1200/940 coincident with the MAPt.
It won't matter what bank selection you have if you've got the FDs off and are hand flying although we are limited to 25 in this case, ahem.
If the weather is good then there's no need to race down to 1200 and what I do is aim to be at 1200 just before I start turning towards GELO. If the weather is cack then aim to be at 1200/940 coincident with the MAPt.
It won't matter what bank selection you have if you've got the FDs off and are hand flying although we are limited to 25 in this case, ahem
.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 36
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brilliant! That clears that up.
I'll just keep going over it and keep those points in my mind!
I'm having to add speed to my vref to allow for the HW plus the full gust factor but as i slow the ROD down about 20ft and also then cut the throttles on my 737 throttle quadrant which i bought from the US she always bounces then floats slightly, Not sure if this is because i'm too fast and added too much VAPP? I do however bleed off steady state but keep the gust factor to touchdown.
I'll just keep going over it and keep those points in my mind!
I'm having to add speed to my vref to allow for the HW plus the full gust factor but as i slow the ROD down about 20ft and also then cut the throttles on my 737 throttle quadrant which i bought from the US
she always bounces then floats slightly, Not sure if this is because i'm too fast and added too much VAPP? I do however bleed off steady state but keep the gust factor to touchdown.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 36
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fly too Chambery tomorrow with Jet2, what are the chances the flight crew allowing me and my missys getting a pict in the seats after we land and at the gate once deboarding?
