Automation (Good or Bad ?)
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Automation (Good or Bad ?)
As an avid aviation fan for the best part of my life I have always had the greatest respect for the "guys up front".
However my confidence has taken a bit of a knock lately when I stumbled across the report of the Thomas Cook B757-200 incident which occurred at Newcastle on 17th August last year.
To a non pilot, but never the less, well informed in aviation matters enthusiast like myself this makes for chilling reading.
Without going into the long and sometimes technical chain of events which the report highlights the thing which surprises me most is the level of automation which apparently is the norm during a commercial passenger flight.
Most lay persons will be aware of the term Auto Pilot and I suppose that the same folk, like myself thought that this was an aid to be employed when in the cruise so that the guys up front can stretch out, have a coffee and relax a bit. (just a bit mind !!).
Reading the said report I was amazed at the level of automation still engaged when on final approach and indeed the scope for things to go wrong when attempting to revert to the pilot actually flying the aircraft.
In this respect I would be grateful if any of our "aircrew" friends could spill the beans and let me know just what level of automation is normally used during an everyday approach and landing and furthermore just how much hand flying is actually carried out these days.
Thanks.
However my confidence has taken a bit of a knock lately when I stumbled across the report of the Thomas Cook B757-200 incident which occurred at Newcastle on 17th August last year.
To a non pilot, but never the less, well informed in aviation matters enthusiast like myself this makes for chilling reading.
Without going into the long and sometimes technical chain of events which the report highlights the thing which surprises me most is the level of automation which apparently is the norm during a commercial passenger flight.
Most lay persons will be aware of the term Auto Pilot and I suppose that the same folk, like myself thought that this was an aid to be employed when in the cruise so that the guys up front can stretch out, have a coffee and relax a bit. (just a bit mind !!).
Reading the said report I was amazed at the level of automation still engaged when on final approach and indeed the scope for things to go wrong when attempting to revert to the pilot actually flying the aircraft.
In this respect I would be grateful if any of our "aircrew" friends could spill the beans and let me know just what level of automation is normally used during an everyday approach and landing and furthermore just how much hand flying is actually carried out these days.
Thanks.
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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Mike
Your post concerns one of the most important and contentious aspects of today's commercial aviation scene.
May I suggest you delete your thread and repost it exactly as here but in the tech log forum.
JF
Your post concerns one of the most important and contentious aspects of today's commercial aviation scene.
May I suggest you delete your thread and repost it exactly as here but in the tech log forum.
JF
The TCX incident was essentially a failure to use automation (specifically, going around without selecting G/A) and the resulting poor execution of the manoeuvre, leading to increased workload for the crew and a loss of situational awareness.
Tha AAIB didn't see fit to make any Safety Recommendations, so it's hard to see what, other than the operator's proposal to review their go-around training, needs to change.
Tha AAIB didn't see fit to make any Safety Recommendations, so it's hard to see what, other than the operator's proposal to review their go-around training, needs to change.
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I appreciate your reply Dave and having read the report of the incident over and over I think I have a pretty good understanding of what happened, however it's the last paragraph of my original post which I would be grateful for info on.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Mike, there's no hard and fast rule about how automatic you make the approach.
Personally I'll fly a raw data or visual approach without any automatics as often as possible (probably every other sector that I am PF for). Some of my colleagues never do. Sometimes I'll use the automatics to fly a visual approach which is a rarely practiced skill.
I'd say "normally", when it's vectors to an ILS, the autopilot will stay in until established on the localiser at the earliest, or until decision at the latest.
Personally I'll fly a raw data or visual approach without any automatics as often as possible (probably every other sector that I am PF for). Some of my colleagues never do. Sometimes I'll use the automatics to fly a visual approach which is a rarely practiced skill.
I'd say "normally", when it's vectors to an ILS, the autopilot will stay in until established on the localiser at the earliest, or until decision at the latest.
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Thank you for that My Lord. That just about fits in with what I suspected. I live about 5 miles east of the touchdown point of runway 23 at Durham Tees Valley and over the years have noticed quite different approach patterns used by different airlines. When Ryanair used to fly into Durham Tees they always used to fly the ILS from quite a long way out where as, on the same day a KLM F70 / F100 would make a visual approach to what looked like a 3 mile final.
As a passenger I myself have been involved in 4 go arounds. Two at Escravos, Nigeria in horrible weather which necessitated a return to Lagos. It was quite an experience watching through the open cockpit door as the guys worked their socks off in the Twin Otter.
Then twice we have gone around at Nimes from quite a low altitude (over the boundry fence on one occasion) with Ryanair.
It wasn't until I read the above mentioned report that I became aware that a "Go Around" isn't just a case of piling on the power and getting the gear up.
Thanks again for the insight.
As a passenger I myself have been involved in 4 go arounds. Two at Escravos, Nigeria in horrible weather which necessitated a return to Lagos. It was quite an experience watching through the open cockpit door as the guys worked their socks off in the Twin Otter.
Then twice we have gone around at Nimes from quite a low altitude (over the boundry fence on one occasion) with Ryanair.
It wasn't until I read the above mentioned report that I became aware that a "Go Around" isn't just a case of piling on the power and getting the gear up.
Thanks again for the insight.
