LHR Heathrow Arrivals
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LHR Heathrow Arrivals
I have recently been watching the LHR radarbox to see early morning arrival patterns. From 0430Z to 0545Z there is a steady stream of Far East arrivals and the odd Africa. Most are assigned a straight in approach. It then appears that from 0545Z to about 0555Z there is a runway closure as all arrivals go into the stack holds and there are no landings for about 10 minutes.
The only idea I have is that the runways close at sunrise to allow visual inspection?
Would appreciate correct explanation if there is one.
The only idea I have is that the runways close at sunrise to allow visual inspection?
Would appreciate correct explanation if there is one.
Last edited by starliner; 7th Nov 2010 at 05:16.
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I'm sure Heathrow Director or someone else in the know will be along for a proper answer, but I think its because Heathrow offically opens at 6, but they are allowed a certain quota of night flights.
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landings before 6 cost a premium and I think airlines are allowed x amount per month.
I have been sat on a flt (numerous times) waiting to depart HKG and it has been held so as not to arrive before 6am.
I have been sat on a flt (numerous times) waiting to depart HKG and it has been held so as not to arrive before 6am.
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Mostly correct but the airport does not close at night - it's H24 - nor do runway inspections usually take place at that busy time; they're done beforehand. A fair number of flights do arrive from the early hours but these are airlines using up their night allocations. Most are not allowed to land until 6am, which accounts for the holding which takes place while they wait.
Last edited by HEATHROW DIRECTOR; 7th Nov 2010 at 10:18.
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Starliner
This is what our airline rule book says...
Its also explains
So what you are seeing is the flights with the scheduled arrival of 0615 or earlier going straight in to land, whilst those with a later arrival time join the hold and await the end of the night limits at 0600.
Always a good game of trying to work how early do you want to get to London. Get there early, hold for 15min, but be at the front of the queue for landing, or get there at 0600 and find you are at the back of the queue.
What also tends to happen is the available night slots start to get tight towards the end of the season and Ops will then ask the crews to land after the night jet ban time. This year has been quite good - with the ash cloud closure there has been a fairly healthy surplus of night slots available.
This is what our airline rule book says...
Flights into LHR and LGW with a scheduled arrival time of 0615 Local or earlier must not land before 0432 Local. Other flights must not land before 0602 Local.
Airlines are permitted to schedule movements (both departures and arrivals) and operate delayed flights in this period up to a set maximum of both movements and noise quotas. Any exceedance will normally result in a reduction of the allocation for the next season. An overrun of these limits by more than 20% is not permitted and no more movements would be allowed, during the “Night” period, until the end of the season.
Always a good game of trying to work how early do you want to get to London. Get there early, hold for 15min, but be at the front of the queue for landing, or get there at 0600 and find you are at the back of the queue.
What also tends to happen is the available night slots start to get tight towards the end of the season and Ops will then ask the crews to land after the night jet ban time. This year has been quite good - with the ash cloud closure there has been a fairly healthy surplus of night slots available.
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What you are seeing are flights with quota to arrive before 0600 doing just that, and those without quota holding to land not before 0602. Also Heathrow has a voluntary ban on flights arriving before 0430.
Edited to make clearer.
Edited to make clearer.
Last edited by Flightman; 7th Nov 2010 at 14:07.
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<<without quota holding until after 0602.>>
To be absolutely accurate, the first ones come out of holding around 5.50 to be on the ground at 6.02. The 6.02 bit, instead of 6.00, was because thr airport authority would not accept the times issued by ATC. "06.00" in ATC parlance is from 05.59:31 to 06.00:30 (or within a second of those times). Can't recall why the extra minute was added but I think it was a BA thing??
To be absolutely accurate, the first ones come out of holding around 5.50 to be on the ground at 6.02. The 6.02 bit, instead of 6.00, was because thr airport authority would not accept the times issued by ATC. "06.00" in ATC parlance is from 05.59:31 to 06.00:30 (or within a second of those times). Can't recall why the extra minute was added but I think it was a BA thing??
The "quota" for night operations is a number for a season, but it works out at around 15 per night, which on the typical day might be 13 early arrivals between 0430 and 0600, and one or two delayed late departures. Once upon a time night operations were often freight flights operating in and out at deep night hours, but these have been squeezed out and most are now widebody early arrivals, generally from the Far East and North America.
Overnight flights from Hong Kong are commercially popular but as the performance of aircraft on the route has improved, along with progressively more direct routings across China and Russia, it is now a challenge to predict en-route winds up to 12 hours ahead, get away from Hong Kong at an appropriate late evening time, fly efficiently, and either get a pre-0600 slot or land after 0600.
Scheduled and actual can be a bit different, the quota is based on actual. So (another hypothetical example) if a BA departure at 2300 is 2 hours late getting away it can leave at 0100, but some days later an inbound approaching for 0545 may hold to restore the quota used. The quota is divided up by airline, BA are the largest user but all can apply for an appropriate share - not that there is much to go round. A landing at 0559 is a bit of a waste of a night slot, which you might need more seriously later in the season, hence why you tend to see a short lull in the final minutes.
From the back bedroom of our house, when clear, there is a distant view of the Lambourne hold, so if I am up around 0600 I often give a glance to see how much activity is there, it's a good guide to how things are going. Plenty visible (summer) or strobes going around (winter) means that the congestion has started early. Unexpectedly strong transatlantic tailwinds blowing people in early are a significant nuisance.
As Heathrow Director says, it is a longstanding myth that Heathrow is closed overnight, it is not, but there can be only a very limited number of operations.
I'm sure there's some Zealot at HACAN
who sits up every night counting them in, with one hand on the phone to the media at 0559 just in case ......
Overnight flights from Hong Kong are commercially popular but as the performance of aircraft on the route has improved, along with progressively more direct routings across China and Russia, it is now a challenge to predict en-route winds up to 12 hours ahead, get away from Hong Kong at an appropriate late evening time, fly efficiently, and either get a pre-0600 slot or land after 0600.
Scheduled and actual can be a bit different, the quota is based on actual. So (another hypothetical example) if a BA departure at 2300 is 2 hours late getting away it can leave at 0100, but some days later an inbound approaching for 0545 may hold to restore the quota used. The quota is divided up by airline, BA are the largest user but all can apply for an appropriate share - not that there is much to go round. A landing at 0559 is a bit of a waste of a night slot, which you might need more seriously later in the season, hence why you tend to see a short lull in the final minutes.
From the back bedroom of our house, when clear, there is a distant view of the Lambourne hold, so if I am up around 0600 I often give a glance to see how much activity is there, it's a good guide to how things are going. Plenty visible (summer) or strobes going around (winter) means that the congestion has started early. Unexpectedly strong transatlantic tailwinds blowing people in early are a significant nuisance.
As Heathrow Director says, it is a longstanding myth that Heathrow is closed overnight, it is not, but there can be only a very limited number of operations.
I'm sure there's some Zealot at HACAN
who sits up every night counting them in, with one hand on the phone to the media at 0559 just in case ......
Last edited by WHBM; 8th Nov 2010 at 16:41.
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Early morning holding can start long before 6am. As WHBM suggests, wind prediction can be difficult and I've seen transatlantic traffic enter the holds soon after 5am.
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<<So do some pilots request to stay in the "stack" at say 0530 ? Bet that gets complicated, aren't they all descending while they hold? >>
Aircraft are instructed to hold if there is a delay, so they simply enter the published holding patterns until they can commence approach for landing. Nothing at all complicated. They are not necessarily descending, but when they do it is carried out in accordance with standard procedures and separation is maintained at all times.
Aircraft are instructed to hold if there is a delay, so they simply enter the published holding patterns until they can commence approach for landing. Nothing at all complicated. They are not necessarily descending, but when they do it is carried out in accordance with standard procedures and separation is maintained at all times.
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Mostly we try to avoid arriving too early, as yes HD says, we get bounced off to the "stack" holding pattern. Terribly frustrating for us, but all in the campaign for peace and quiet on the approach path and airport surrounds, we like to keep the nimbys happy.
We do try to stick to our flight plan timings, (not knowing the guru's in ATC how they coordinate and juggle our slots lol) but occassionally a few of us arrive a tad early and have to hold (both planned holds and non-planned busy period holds). Some company procedures do not allow night landings (in or out of quota) so the donkeys are reined in and we try to slow down to arrive at a more suitable and coordinatable (new word) time..... if we cant slow down and help ATC out, then we accept the free tour of the London locale countryside for a few minutes or so....
We do try to stick to our flight plan timings, (not knowing the guru's in ATC how they coordinate and juggle our slots lol) but occassionally a few of us arrive a tad early and have to hold (both planned holds and non-planned busy period holds). Some company procedures do not allow night landings (in or out of quota) so the donkeys are reined in and we try to slow down to arrive at a more suitable and coordinatable (new word) time..... if we cant slow down and help ATC out, then we accept the free tour of the London locale countryside for a few minutes or so....
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VS022 on Sunday 7/11/10
I arrived at LHR at 06.18 on Sunday morning from IAD on VS 022, we did 4 trips I think around the stack before landing, we departed IAD at 23.58 UK time for a very fast journey, we where not supprised that we where directed to the stack, but we where still on the ground 47 minutes early.
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mmmm, so this is quite complicated. An airline is allocated a number of night slots per season and then someone in the planning department has to allocate these by flight number and date. Must be quite difficult to manage on all sides.
How does a landing PIC make the decision whether to use a night slot or not - is this done at flight planning stage or over the english channel?
Does use of a night slot require prior approval from LHR?
Can be fun when BAW get to the last week of the season and have 100 spare night slots?
How does a landing PIC make the decision whether to use a night slot or not - is this done at flight planning stage or over the english channel?
Does use of a night slot require prior approval from LHR?
Can be fun when BAW get to the last week of the season and have 100 spare night slots?
Whenever I've been in the stack I've had the impression that the lowest aircraft gets pulled off first and then everyone else gets to step down (1000 ft?). If the stack gets more than 3 or 4 in it it must be a nightmare for the controller to take the bottom one off, tell the one above to descend 1000ft, wait until that has at least started (or wait until it arrives at the new altitude?) then move the next one etc all the time managing the ones that have already started their approach and bringing in new aircraft arriving at the top of the stack.
Does the situation ever arise when you need to take one out of the stack out of turn? I guess you simply assign a heading out of the stack and then descend it a bit quicker than normal to get it into the line for landing. Then you just reassign the stack above the removed aircraft.
Does the situation ever arise when you need to take one out of the stack out of turn? I guess you simply assign a heading out of the stack and then descend it a bit quicker than normal to get it into the line for landing. Then you just reassign the stack above the removed aircraft.
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These are probably questions for an ATCO such as HD:
Is there one ATCO assigned to manage an entire LHR holding stack? Or is there a team of ATCOs who work together to process aircraft through the stack before handing off to LHR tower?
Since aircraft are under radar vector at this stage of flight, does the controller tell the pilot to turn 90 degrees left/right or is the pilot responsible for knowing the procedure for that particular stack and when turns should be made?
Finally, if I may (!), what happens if one aircraft in the middle of the stack wishes, for whatever reason, to hold his altitude? Does this mean all aircraft at a higher altitude must also hold their altitude? Or is it still possible to descend aircraft at a higher altitude through that level without breaching the legal separation limits?
Is there one ATCO assigned to manage an entire LHR holding stack? Or is there a team of ATCOs who work together to process aircraft through the stack before handing off to LHR tower?
Since aircraft are under radar vector at this stage of flight, does the controller tell the pilot to turn 90 degrees left/right or is the pilot responsible for knowing the procedure for that particular stack and when turns should be made?
Finally, if I may (!), what happens if one aircraft in the middle of the stack wishes, for whatever reason, to hold his altitude? Does this mean all aircraft at a higher altitude must also hold their altitude? Or is it still possible to descend aircraft at a higher altitude through that level without breaching the legal separation limits?
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Hartington.... Running a stack, or stacks (Heathrow has four) is a routine task. When one is taken off the bottom, the others are laddered down. The controller can either use an aircraft report that it has left a level before clearing the next one down, or he can use SSR to see when the levels are clear. It's fairly common to take aircraft out of the stack "out of turn" to provide the best landing rate when wake turbulence separation is a consideration. E.g if there are 4 heavies arriving at similar times, they may be sequenced together to avoid big spaces with lighter aircraft between them. Equally, 4 or 5 medium aircraft may be taken off together at the expense of 1 or 2 heavies which are already there. It's basically "first come first served" but ATC also has to achieve the maximum landing rate consistently.
Nicholas49.... Aircraft routeing into the holding stacks work a number controllers from the time they join UK airspace. However, once they join the holding patterns they are (usually) under the control of the airfield approach sectors. Heathrow has four holding patterns. Two to the north (BNN and LAM) are controlled by the Intermediate Director (North) and the two to the south (OCK and BIG) by the Int Dir (South). If things get very busy, each can call for assistance by a further controller who then takes on the task of accepting inbound releases and descending aircraft in the stacks on the same frequency as the radar controller. The Intermediate Directors take the aircraft off the stacks, direct them into a circuit for landing and start their descent. All traffic from the 4 stacks is then landed to a Final Director who's task is to direct them on to the ILS providing the required spacing before handing them to the Tower.
Aircraft in the holding patterns are on their own navigation so they fly the patterns without radar assistance. It's usually done by the autopilot.
If an aircraft wishes to maintain altitude, those above must maintain theirs. It would be possible, using radar separation, to descend other aircraft through the one maintaining its level but it's not something I ever recall seeing.
Phewwww.. HTH.
Nicholas49.... Aircraft routeing into the holding stacks work a number controllers from the time they join UK airspace. However, once they join the holding patterns they are (usually) under the control of the airfield approach sectors. Heathrow has four holding patterns. Two to the north (BNN and LAM) are controlled by the Intermediate Director (North) and the two to the south (OCK and BIG) by the Int Dir (South). If things get very busy, each can call for assistance by a further controller who then takes on the task of accepting inbound releases and descending aircraft in the stacks on the same frequency as the radar controller. The Intermediate Directors take the aircraft off the stacks, direct them into a circuit for landing and start their descent. All traffic from the 4 stacks is then landed to a Final Director who's task is to direct them on to the ILS providing the required spacing before handing them to the Tower.
Aircraft in the holding patterns are on their own navigation so they fly the patterns without radar assistance. It's usually done by the autopilot.
If an aircraft wishes to maintain altitude, those above must maintain theirs. It would be possible, using radar separation, to descend other aircraft through the one maintaining its level but it's not something I ever recall seeing.
Phewwww.. HTH.
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Duracellslade VS022 on Sunday 7/11/10
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I arrived at LHR at 06.18 on Sunday morning from IAD on VS 022, we did 4 trips I think around the stack before landing, we departed IAD at 23.58 UK time for a very fast journey, we where not supprised that we where directed to the stack, but we where still on the ground 47 minutes early.
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It was 3 circuits of OCK.
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I arrived at LHR at 06.18 on Sunday morning from IAD on VS 022, we did 4 trips I think around the stack before landing, we departed IAD at 23.58 UK time for a very fast journey, we where not supprised that we where directed to the stack, but we where still on the ground 47 minutes early.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was 3 circuits of OCK.