Poof in Boots

Why is BA pressing ahead with new routes such as AMS/JFK with its OS 757's, when it has a new partner on the Continent?

Surely IBERIA would not welcome OPENSKIES aircraft operating out of MAD or BCN to JFK?

The game has moved on Willy.

TopBunk

Poof

It always seemed 'strange' that BA would open up a MAD-JFK route in competition with their OW partner.

However, to say that OpenSkies in over because of a possible marriage with Iberia is somewhat simplistic. OK, the MAD-JFK route may not happen, but there are still lots of European capitals not in OW that could be attractive (including AMS, BRU, FRA, LIN, ZRH/GVA, VIE, CPH etc).

[Memo: not a fan of OpenSkies, but just playing devils advocate against your post]

gas path

They've been in operation, what two months? and the cabin is being reconfigured already to increase the number of prem+ seats!

beaver eager

I've never done a comparison (or researched on here) and just heard through the grapevine from my Spanish wife... But my understanding is that Iberia pilots aren't supposed to be any cheaper than we are, and maybe have even more (= better) restrictive working practices (That's lifestyle protection to us pilots and cost to our managements).

I can see the openskies model being extended to the South Atlantic too and the merger will just allow all the Iberia pilots' T&Cs to be undermined as well as ours?

Bearing in mind the undermining that's already gone on inside Iberia at BCN with the new lo-cost "replacements".

Cynical? Moi?

Bien sur.

__________________
Climbing at an R.A.T.E. of 1.53 vertical seconds per foot of thrust!

411A

Get used to it, beaver eager, for that is the way that terms and conditions are headed.

Can CC and pilot unions resist?
Yes...but not for long.

Them's the facts....like it or not, and I suspect many won't.
Management, on the other hand, is well protected...

Dysag

BA + IB = MORE powerful unions, MORE Govt intervention, MORE people thinking their lifestyle has to be preserved at the customer's expense.

So... even more need for OpenSkies.

Poof in Boots

I wonder if the US government would allow UNITED or AA to start a new airline using US registered aircraft, with not one of those flight or cabin crew onboard holding US passports?

I don't think so.

OPENSKIES is being used to bypass superior employment protection laws in the EU, using cheaper hire and fire US nationals as cabin crew.

411A

Yep, as it absolutely should be, hire and fire at will...in this way the airline receives performance from CC, not seniorty protected malcontents.
IE: more profits for the investors, and of course...management.
And, lets us not forget, the passenger benefits as well.
Fresh faces are always desired in the cabin.
SQ has done this for years...and once again rated the best for cabin service and customer satisfaction.
IE: profits keep a rollin' in.

KC135777

management lackey/wannabee

Re-Heat

You know not of what you talk - this is unionised, nationalistic claptrap.

Most airlines the world over have employed local cabin crew at outstations - many still do as well. Besides, the flight crew have the right to live and work in the EU; the cabin crew however are logically US-based, located at what is effectively the hub of operations in JFK.

I recall when BA was allied to US Air, US Air operating a number of N-reg, BA-liveried aircraft to Charlotte, Philidephia and other routes, crewed by Gatwick Cabin crew, and US Air flight crew.

EC makes a great deal of sense with the IB merger, and will continue to do so.

Seat62K

Initially, Open Skies publicity specifically mentioned Madrid as a possible destination but more recently the city has been, for me, conspicuously absent. I assumed that Madrid had been withdrawn from the list because of BA's relationship with Iberia.
On another matter, if the merger does go ahead I wonder what place there would be for Vueling (I understand Iberia controls 40% of its capital) given BA's view that there's no role in its group for a low cost operation (except Open Skies, of course ). Viva Air didn't last so perhaps Vueling might disappear too.

Conan The Barber

Invariably there are people who enjoy seeing others being brought down a peg or two. Equally invariable, these people are on the outside looking in, with their faces leaving greasy stains on the window.

Of course, the rationalization is always what wonderful business sense it makes, never how good it is for their sense of self-worth.

Seat62K

Since writing my recent post above, I've seen that Open Skies is thinking about Barcelona as a possible destination. Consider humble pie eaten!
Moderators: Why has this thread been moved to "Spotters"?