Nippon Cargo Airlines (NCA)
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Nippon Cargo Airlines (NCA)
Hello - Anyone have any information on Nippon Cargo Airlines? Bases, Pay, Scheduling/Commuting, Contract, Training, Interview, etc.
Thank you in advance and I appreciate your time. Cheers.
Thank you in advance and I appreciate your time. Cheers.
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KBC, I was about to ask the same.. I remember they used to be a thread about NCA on the freighter section but cant find it no more.
Is Hawaii Aviation the only agency dealing with NCA?
Is Hawaii Aviation the only agency dealing with NCA?
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Not recommended unless you're Japanese or South Africa: Japanese on their own seniority list and get priority, unionized and only fly 50 hours a month; South African "managers" control the expat non-union side of the company and manipulate everything they can to help themselves and their friends, so they come second after Japanese; last of all comes the average line joe blow who gets whats left by other two groups. Bottom of the barrel are US and Canadians who are most abused by scheduling due to having most commute flight choice, also lowest pay in company (commute allowance $400 pm, compared to $1450+ pm for others).
You will hate life after a year of flying 85+ hours a month and another 10-20 hours DH (either on company jet which is ok, or on cheapest available economy commercial flight available booked at last minute). Weak duty regs (that can be thrown out if operational req): eg NRT-LAX scheduled 2 man ops. Very short right now due guys leaving (both seats). In last week captain did NRT to AMS, then 8 hours rest, and back AMS to NRT. Extreme fatige is the way it is: night flight on your body clock followed by day flight then another night flight. Company nurse (Jap) has own rules and go higher whats required by JCAB medical; so you can pass medical but if she see's something on your report or any exray she can order extra tests/procedures. Sick leave does not carry over to next year: a 20 year Captain got a cancer diagnosis and after his 12 sick days was terminated. Where do I stop...?
New guys in training right now - out of 17 hired, 15 are from South Africa ummmmm
You will hate life after a year of flying 85+ hours a month and another 10-20 hours DH (either on company jet which is ok, or on cheapest available economy commercial flight available booked at last minute). Weak duty regs (that can be thrown out if operational req): eg NRT-LAX scheduled 2 man ops. Very short right now due guys leaving (both seats). In last week captain did NRT to AMS, then 8 hours rest, and back AMS to NRT. Extreme fatige is the way it is: night flight on your body clock followed by day flight then another night flight. Company nurse (Jap) has own rules and go higher whats required by JCAB medical; so you can pass medical but if she see's something on your report or any exray she can order extra tests/procedures. Sick leave does not carry over to next year: a 20 year Captain got a cancer diagnosis and after his 12 sick days was terminated. Where do I stop...?
New guys in training right now - out of 17 hired, 15 are from South Africa ummmmm
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The South Africa, Zim, and Japan guys I've flown with have been pretty good guys relative to the pool in general. And you won't have to run everything you say through a filter of political correctness. They're a decent bunch.
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Training takes around 8 months and is very easy to fail. Medical requirements are insane and company nurse can pull your ticket at any time. The schedules are extremely busy and tiring with little or no time for R&R. Due to high rate of attrition situation seem to be getting worse. The remuneration package fundamentally hasn't been improved since it's creation 20 years ago. Was at one point a fine job but would not recommend anyone come to NCA. A contract and company in decline.
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Air Japan contract seems to improve over time and airline is clearly run by people who understand the aviation industry. Not perfect, but gradually heading in a good direction. Fresh metal in the form of the 787 coming soon also.
On the other hand, NCA new contract has no increase in salary. This will insure no increase in salary for at least a period of 9 years. Not including a 10% pay cut some 6 years ago. This represents a huge decay in remuneration and creates a very negative working environment.
The job may look good on Paper but a very unhappy place to work. Roster has continued to decline. Extra days off above the 10 are becoming rare. On a month with no extra days off you may need to travel to and from work on your off days. Reverse pattern with the Chinese and bank a real salary would be a better option for some. Attrician rates rising fast at NCA. Be careful rushing for a job that many want to leave.
On the other hand, NCA new contract has no increase in salary. This will insure no increase in salary for at least a period of 9 years. Not including a 10% pay cut some 6 years ago. This represents a huge decay in remuneration and creates a very negative working environment.
The job may look good on Paper but a very unhappy place to work. Roster has continued to decline. Extra days off above the 10 are becoming rare. On a month with no extra days off you may need to travel to and from work on your off days. Reverse pattern with the Chinese and bank a real salary would be a better option for some. Attrician rates rising fast at NCA. Be careful rushing for a job that many want to leave.
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Air Japan contract seems to improve over time and airline is clearly run by people who understand the aviation industry.
Not perfect, but gradually heading in a good direction. Fresh metal in the form of the 787 coming soon also.
I agree that NCA has a LOT of problems but please don't make out that AJX is much better because it's not and it's only getting worse.
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I seem to have upset Fratemate. I can't disagree with anything he has said, however this is not the picture portrayed to me from some of his colleagues at Air Japan.
I must reiterate that not only has NCA not improved the salary for some 9years (Including the upcoming contract) it has also passed down a 10% pay cut during the same period. This represents a massive reduction in remuneration and spending power.
More importantly to anyone thinking of joining NCA. It clearly demonstrates the company has no intention in being a quality employer. Please take a look at the Parent company NYK and the treatment of their employees.
Looking back on NCA's history as an indication of it's future is pointless and it was fundamentally controlled and run by ANA. Known affectionally in NCA as the good old days.
I'm simply trying to help people make an informed choice.
I must reiterate that not only has NCA not improved the salary for some 9years (Including the upcoming contract) it has also passed down a 10% pay cut during the same period. This represents a massive reduction in remuneration and spending power.
More importantly to anyone thinking of joining NCA. It clearly demonstrates the company has no intention in being a quality employer. Please take a look at the Parent company NYK and the treatment of their employees.
Looking back on NCA's history as an indication of it's future is pointless and it was fundamentally controlled and run by ANA. Known affectionally in NCA as the good old days.
I'm simply trying to help people make an informed choice.
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In answer to the question regarding hours flown on average. It varies depending on Base, however you can look at logging between 600 and 750 hours flying and up to 100 as Dead head either on the company aircraft or in an economy seat with another airline.
These may seem like reasonable hours to most, however the schedules mostly flip flop between day and night and take in a massive amount of time zone changes. Simply exhausting and sole destroying.
These may seem like reasonable hours to most, however the schedules mostly flip flop between day and night and take in a massive amount of time zone changes. Simply exhausting and sole destroying.
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No, please don't even think for one moment that you've upset me. Far from it; it does us good to get all the goods and bads of our companies out into the open. Also, inter-company chat (especially those that get to chat in the Excel) is always a good means of ensuring the truth is told :-)
Given the choice between NCA and AJX I would choose AJX. You guys do some really stupid duties and with your lack of decent commuting and lots of deadheading I really think the AJX deal is marginally better. However, as I said above, AJX has got significantly worse recently and we're now looking at the sort of rosters and stupid scheduling that we had about five years ago and caused a lot of trouble.
I think I'll win the lottery instead of all this crap and concentrate on my golf skills.
Given the choice between NCA and AJX I would choose AJX. You guys do some really stupid duties and with your lack of decent commuting and lots of deadheading I really think the AJX deal is marginally better. However, as I said above, AJX has got significantly worse recently and we're now looking at the sort of rosters and stupid scheduling that we had about five years ago and caused a lot of trouble.
I think I'll win the lottery instead of all this crap and concentrate on my golf skills.
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Bases: AMS, ORD, LAX. As a new hire you will probably be assigned an ORD base with a NRT Gateway, which basically means the company can start/end you at either. You may request a new Base/Gateway in March each year but you are not guaranteed your preference. The scheduler does try to accommodate all requests to start/end in the requested Base.
Pay: Depending on the agency, HACS or PARC. During the 7 months of training between $7,000 - $8,000. After training between $10,000 - $15,000 *(All inclusive, depending on agency, base, salary structure, per diems and overtime). $12,000/month average.
Scheduling: Contractually 8 consecutive days/month, for the time being 10 days/month. You can split the days as you choose 1/9, 2/8, 3/7 etc. Two sets of 12 day vacation blocks, which you may attach 10 days off either side. Your schedule may include Blank Days but there is a discrepancy in how many you may receive per month, count on none. Standbys are not scheduled which obviously affects the daily schedule.
Commuting: U.S. bases $1,000/month and AMS base $1,350 or $1,450/month depending on agency. Deadheading is either on company aircraft or commercial flights in economy.
Contract: 3 years renewable with HACS or PARC. If you apply do so with both agencies to ensure your application is submitted. You can decided on which agency before the interview/signing of contract.
Training: 4 months of ground school/SIM and two JCAB checks for non-type rated. Followed by 3-4 weeks vacation and then OJT (on job training)/line training, totaling 7 months.
Interview: 747-400 SIM ride followed by a interview with an agency representative and two NCA staff. If successful a medical in Tokyo. If you pass this medical it does NOT mean you will pass the medical after training, this is simply a medical to check if you will pass the JCAB medical.
Time to command is currently 10 years.
CAUTION
*There is no guarantee you will pass the course and you have no recourse should you fail. In 2016 there was one failure out of 17 at NCA. You may be given extra training or you may be asked to leave without.
AJX (Air Japan) has a higher failure rate, 1-2 people per course.
*You may pass the course and then fail the medical.
2/17 in 2016 had issues with medicals after passing the training.
*The JCAB may issue your medical but the NCA nurse may "revoke" it which means your insurance will not pay.
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Pay: Depending on the agency, HACS or PARC. During the 7 months of training between $7,000 - $8,000. After training between $10,000 - $15,000 *(All inclusive, depending on agency, base, salary structure, per diems and overtime). $12,000/month average.
Scheduling: Contractually 8 consecutive days/month, for the time being 10 days/month. You can split the days as you choose 1/9, 2/8, 3/7 etc. Two sets of 12 day vacation blocks, which you may attach 10 days off either side. Your schedule may include Blank Days but there is a discrepancy in how many you may receive per month, count on none. Standbys are not scheduled which obviously affects the daily schedule.
Commuting: U.S. bases $1,000/month and AMS base $1,350 or $1,450/month depending on agency. Deadheading is either on company aircraft or commercial flights in economy.
Contract: 3 years renewable with HACS or PARC. If you apply do so with both agencies to ensure your application is submitted. You can decided on which agency before the interview/signing of contract.
Training: 4 months of ground school/SIM and two JCAB checks for non-type rated. Followed by 3-4 weeks vacation and then OJT (on job training)/line training, totaling 7 months.
Interview: 747-400 SIM ride followed by a interview with an agency representative and two NCA staff. If successful a medical in Tokyo. If you pass this medical it does NOT mean you will pass the medical after training, this is simply a medical to check if you will pass the JCAB medical.
Time to command is currently 10 years.
CAUTION
*There is no guarantee you will pass the course and you have no recourse should you fail. In 2016 there was one failure out of 17 at NCA. You may be given extra training or you may be asked to leave without.
AJX (Air Japan) has a higher failure rate, 1-2 people per course.
*You may pass the course and then fail the medical.
2/17 in 2016 had issues with medicals after passing the training.
*The JCAB may issue your medical but the NCA nurse may "revoke" it which means your insurance will not pay.
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Last edited by flyinginjapan; 9th Apr 2017 at 12:15.
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Getting Worse
Since the last post on this thread in April I have to say that things at NCA have gone downhill rapidly. As Wavecatcher was saying: they have imposed another three year contract onto us with no improvement to our salaries. This contract runs until 2020 so, in effect, we will not have received a single CPI adjusted pay raise in 10 years, from when we took a 10% pay cut back in summer 2010. Another four captains have walked out on them. The roster now has all the stability of a coke head walking a tightrope, blindfolded - constant changes, minimum rest, never getting home when you think, flight cancellations, it is utter chaos. Don't expect HACS or Parc to step in either, they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them.
To top it all we have a company nurse who takes great, sadistic pleasure in going through your medical, the JCAB medical that you have passed, & forcing you into various unneeded procedures just because she can. She emailed one guy, said that I hope you're ok but you're off the roster because we've found a brain tumor. He went through a couple of weeks of living hell before being given the all clear! There never was any suggestion of such a condition, she got it wrong!!!
To recap - no roster stability, treated like a second-class citizen to the Japanese, ever declining pay, cheaper & cheaper hotels, served dog food for crew meals, commercial deadhead in the cheapest seats that they can find, absolute zero regard to fatigue, a lunatic company nurse, the list goes on & on....Tragic that such a great job, in a good company, has been trashed by lousy NYK penny-pinching management.
To top it all we have a company nurse who takes great, sadistic pleasure in going through your medical, the JCAB medical that you have passed, & forcing you into various unneeded procedures just because she can. She emailed one guy, said that I hope you're ok but you're off the roster because we've found a brain tumor. He went through a couple of weeks of living hell before being given the all clear! There never was any suggestion of such a condition, she got it wrong!!!
To recap - no roster stability, treated like a second-class citizen to the Japanese, ever declining pay, cheaper & cheaper hotels, served dog food for crew meals, commercial deadhead in the cheapest seats that they can find, absolute zero regard to fatigue, a lunatic company nurse, the list goes on & on....Tragic that such a great job, in a good company, has been trashed by lousy NYK penny-pinching management.
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I would have to agree with all that was said by "The Gipper" in his post 24th Sept. Please see below a post I made on the 23rd of March regarding Air Japan.
"Air Japan contract seems to improve over time and airline is clearly run by people who understand the aviation industry. Not perfect, but gradually heading in a good direction. Fresh metal in the form of the 787 coming soon also".
My statement caused some irritation in particular with one Air Japan pilot who passionately challenged my claim.
I can be absolutely sure all of the above statement is true. AirJapan has just implemented a not insignificant bonus scheme. Basically over 5 years 30,000 30,000 30,000 36,000 36,000 not Yen, USD.
787 for AirJapan confirmed.
Largest Airline in Japan founded in 1952, clearly know one or maybe two things about the Airline business.
Thinking about an Airline career in Japan, I wouldn't recommend it. If you must don't even for a second entertain the idea of NCA. A sinking ship. Air Japan the best commuting job in Japan.
I'm not trying to offend anyone with my posts or comments but feel we need to be completely honest as people may make life changing decisions based upon some of the information seen here.
"Air Japan contract seems to improve over time and airline is clearly run by people who understand the aviation industry. Not perfect, but gradually heading in a good direction. Fresh metal in the form of the 787 coming soon also".
My statement caused some irritation in particular with one Air Japan pilot who passionately challenged my claim.
I can be absolutely sure all of the above statement is true. AirJapan has just implemented a not insignificant bonus scheme. Basically over 5 years 30,000 30,000 30,000 36,000 36,000 not Yen, USD.
787 for AirJapan confirmed.
Largest Airline in Japan founded in 1952, clearly know one or maybe two things about the Airline business.
Thinking about an Airline career in Japan, I wouldn't recommend it. If you must don't even for a second entertain the idea of NCA. A sinking ship. Air Japan the best commuting job in Japan.
I'm not trying to offend anyone with my posts or comments but feel we need to be completely honest as people may make life changing decisions based upon some of the information seen here.
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It is sad to read thease posts. I joined as a Captain in 1998 and stayed untol 2007. I guess I was lucky enough to have had the best years with them. Good luck to you all.
