Korean airlines info
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Korean airlines info
Hi Guys
are there any current expat commanders flying 737's at Korean that can can possibly give me factual info on rostering, commuting, time off, accommodation and anything else possible to help me with my decision.
many thanks
are there any current expat commanders flying 737's at Korean that can can possibly give me factual info on rostering, commuting, time off, accommodation and anything else possible to help me with my decision.
many thanks
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Italian Stallion sorry to raid your thread but i was just about to start my own thread looking for similar info on KAL so thought i would just combine the 2 instead.
If anybody on the WB fleets could explain how the 'option scheme' flying works then that would be much appreciated?? I understand you can have 7,8 or 9 days at home each time but you receive a 2 day credit each time. What does that exactly mean towards your monthly days off? Also when you start your work cycle, how long will you be gone for if you fly on the 'option scheme'?
I have been informed that not many people sign into the scheme. Is that a sign that the scheme doesnt work very well? If you stay on the normal roster from Incheon, are you able to bid for trips to your home and if so do you normally have a good chance to get your request??
Many thanks in advance for any info,
Cheers 85
If anybody on the WB fleets could explain how the 'option scheme' flying works then that would be much appreciated?? I understand you can have 7,8 or 9 days at home each time but you receive a 2 day credit each time. What does that exactly mean towards your monthly days off? Also when you start your work cycle, how long will you be gone for if you fly on the 'option scheme'?
I have been informed that not many people sign into the scheme. Is that a sign that the scheme doesnt work very well? If you stay on the normal roster from Incheon, are you able to bid for trips to your home and if so do you normally have a good chance to get your request??
Many thanks in advance for any info,
Cheers 85
Last edited by mach85; 28th Jun 2015 at 07:46. Reason: Spelling
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Back a couple years ago , good friend , 777 YVR was week on week off for 8 months of the year. Summer fleet was 744. During summer did 9 days off ++, using most of the vacation during those 4 months. There was some restriction with the vacation .
He moved on the China Shoutern because of tax and pay
He moved on the China Shoutern because of tax and pay
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The various options that long haul pilots enjoy in KE are only available once you join the airline and have completed all the required training and checking. So a minimum of 6 - 9 months after joining.
1) Standard option is to combine annual leave and block time at a location of your choosing. Could be london . Could be Hawaii . You can make monthly selections but most just commute home.
2) Basing. Never mentioned at interviews or advertised. A pilot can select a base. They will report and operate to and from this nominated base ( not position) and as such will be responsible for their own fiscal circumstances. You must be rated and flying the type that serves your base. London was 747-400 but now moving over to 777.
3) Unpaid days off attached to your standard blocks off. Effectivly 2 weeks on 2 off , but for less salary than the standard deal
Double taxation does not mean zero uk tax. If you are resident in the uk you are obliged to make a tax return. Usually the tax paid in the overseas location will be deducted form the uk liability and the difference will be your tax liability. Hence you are not taxed twice on the same salary.As korean tax paid by the airline is no more than a few hundred $US, then good luck with this !
The failure rate at interview is high. 80% fail initial interviews. Off those that pass, around 8 out of 10 will fail some form of the training. Usually the line flying on check. Its by the korean aviation checker. Not the airline. At lease the yanks are in the sim for Boeings.
1) Standard option is to combine annual leave and block time at a location of your choosing. Could be london . Could be Hawaii . You can make monthly selections but most just commute home.
2) Basing. Never mentioned at interviews or advertised. A pilot can select a base. They will report and operate to and from this nominated base ( not position) and as such will be responsible for their own fiscal circumstances. You must be rated and flying the type that serves your base. London was 747-400 but now moving over to 777.
3) Unpaid days off attached to your standard blocks off. Effectivly 2 weeks on 2 off , but for less salary than the standard deal
Double taxation does not mean zero uk tax. If you are resident in the uk you are obliged to make a tax return. Usually the tax paid in the overseas location will be deducted form the uk liability and the difference will be your tax liability. Hence you are not taxed twice on the same salary.As korean tax paid by the airline is no more than a few hundred $US, then good luck with this !
The failure rate at interview is high. 80% fail initial interviews. Off those that pass, around 8 out of 10 will fail some form of the training. Usually the line flying on check. Its by the korean aviation checker. Not the airline. At lease the yanks are in the sim for Boeings.
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UK KOREA DTA 1996 Article 23 paragraph 2 subsection a
Have a good read...just sayin'.
Also complicating the issue is that NO Korean tax is deducted from your salary.
The only Korean tax paid is on the per deims you receive while overnighting in Korea: a couple of hundred dollars.
In fact your agency pays your salary. So it could come from an NZ, Korean, Ilse of Man or Irish source. I'd guess though that a tax auditor would probably consider Korean Air your employer.
Have a good read...just sayin'.
Also complicating the issue is that NO Korean tax is deducted from your salary.
The only Korean tax paid is on the per deims you receive while overnighting in Korea: a couple of hundred dollars.
In fact your agency pays your salary. So it could come from an NZ, Korean, Ilse of Man or Irish source. I'd guess though that a tax auditor would probably consider Korean Air your employer.
Last edited by HPSOV L; 2nd Jul 2015 at 11:17.
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(3) Notwithstanding the preceding provisions of this Article, remuneration derived in respect of an employment exercised aboard a ship or aircraft operated in international traffic may be taxed in the Contracting State of which the enterprise operating the ship or aircraft is a resident.
3. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs 1 and 2, remuneration in respect of an employment exercised aboard a ship or aircraft operated in international traffic by an enterprise of a Contracting State, shall be taxable only in that Contracting State.
Despite any advice you have already received from HM's revenue agency I would suggest you look further into your assumptions regarding article 15.
Above are two forms of the relevant passage frequently used in international tax treaties. Spot the difference? The one you have quoted is a newer form (check the date of the last treaty agreement between the states, then review the previous treaty) which was modified specifically to change the right of the contracting states to levy tax on crew from restrictive to permissive.
My experience over 15 years dealing with this article in relation to multiple treaties has been that tax accountants, and at times revenue service officials, will often provide advice that ultimately proves to be incorrect. Despite the reply you received, there is nothing in the form of the article you referenced that would inhibit the chancellor from requiring your contributions to the nation's welfare.
Given that you are considering a move to KE, a thorough double-check of your assumptions would be well advised. KE is a challenging enough employer even when you get to keep all the loot. When the wording in the treaty I was covered under there changed from the old to new form (10 years ago) it was time to leave. Those that remained have been paying their share to the Canadian version of HM's revenue agency ever since.
Regards,
ELAC
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Fair enough GF, if I had it in writing I wouldn't pay tax either. You'd probably never be audited and even if you were and the chancellor ultimately had a different interpretation, you'd have a strong case that it wasn't tax evasion. It would just be a matter of paying back tax you would have paid anyway, plus a bit of interest.
If the UK tax dept really are following this path it has an interesting precedent for other countries with the same wording in their DTAs.
I agree with ELAC but hope you are correct
Korean is not a bad job once you're in and some 777 pilots do get LHR bases though I wouldn't make a decision based on that.
Plan on the normal roster but hope for the best.
If the UK tax dept really are following this path it has an interesting precedent for other countries with the same wording in their DTAs.
I agree with ELAC but hope you are correct
Korean is not a bad job once you're in and some 777 pilots do get LHR bases though I wouldn't make a decision based on that.
Plan on the normal roster but hope for the best.
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HPSOV L.
I would also go with GF if he has received written confirmation from the revenue office. Like you said, it gives you good grounds against tax evasion.
Regarding other countries as you mentioned: I have been in this 'expat' game 15 years now and many other countries, at least in the EU anyway interpret the double tax agreements the same way that GF has mentioned. While friends/colleagues in the UK have been topping up tax, guys on the continent have been 'signed off' by the respective revenue offices with tax paid abroad as sufficient proof under the relevant DTA. Interesting, maybe the UK is changing its ways now more in line with the rest of the EU. Who knows.
All the best
I would also go with GF if he has received written confirmation from the revenue office. Like you said, it gives you good grounds against tax evasion.
Regarding other countries as you mentioned: I have been in this 'expat' game 15 years now and many other countries, at least in the EU anyway interpret the double tax agreements the same way that GF has mentioned. While friends/colleagues in the UK have been topping up tax, guys on the continent have been 'signed off' by the respective revenue offices with tax paid abroad as sufficient proof under the relevant DTA. Interesting, maybe the UK is changing its ways now more in line with the rest of the EU. Who knows.
All the best
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I know people there who have always lived in the UK and never paid uk tax for10 years. However they have not as far as i am aware, submitted a uk tax return.
Gammon
Cant comment about rosters etc. but its not a dream job !
Gammon
Cant comment about rosters etc. but its not a dream job !
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Gammon, I don't believe roster requests are possible, but the days off blocks can be selected in advance.
There is a 3rd option, that you can negotiate an additional unpaid leave block per month. This is added to your days off.This would obviously give you more time off , but for a significant pay reduction.
Have you applied for anything in Europe yet? Im assuming you are perhaps over 40. Recruitment in Europe is specifically aimed at the young and energetic.
If you are being payed your tax paid 18-20000US$ with Air China/ China Southern etc and can stick it out, all the better. Going through the interview process in say the UK is annoying for experienced guys. Verbal reasoning, personality tests, online assessment and telephone calls. And thats just to get an interview!
Stay in Asia, take the big bucks and retire sooner lol
There is a 3rd option, that you can negotiate an additional unpaid leave block per month. This is added to your days off.This would obviously give you more time off , but for a significant pay reduction.
Have you applied for anything in Europe yet? Im assuming you are perhaps over 40. Recruitment in Europe is specifically aimed at the young and energetic.
If you are being payed your tax paid 18-20000US$ with Air China/ China Southern etc and can stick it out, all the better. Going through the interview process in say the UK is annoying for experienced guys. Verbal reasoning, personality tests, online assessment and telephone calls. And thats just to get an interview!
Stay in Asia, take the big bucks and retire sooner lol
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Met an old mate set to leave at the end of the month after over a decade in kimchiland...the happiest bloke around and with the widest grin in town. The blatant erosion of T & Cs by the intransigent management over the years have made this gig utterly insufferable.
Incompetent f/o's who can hardly understand simple instructions in English beyond what is scripted. Constant misunderstanding of ATC clearances and instructions requiring incessant cross checks, re verifications and reconfirmations in crowded frquencies.
Pilots dozing off without telling you that they needed controlled rests. F/o selecting gear up at initiation of flare maneuver now kept tightly wrapped up.
F/o s dead scared to make changes to " scripted " PAs because should they make a small mistake and a passenger complains, this " misadventure " goes into their files and the command upgrades will be deferred! You will finf F/Os practising PA's aloud in the cockpit ( to the detriment of cockpit monitoring ) several times just prior to making even a scripted PA from the announcement book! The Chairman had struck such fear in utterly unimportant issues in PA! You can imagine the stress and fear the pilots harbour in more important matters.
Your professional skills are gradually eroded as you need to keep monitoring these pathetic chaps every minute you fly with them. Of course there are some competent ones, far in between!
Ground staff at crew service plazas and ticketing counters treating pilots
as if they are their enemies, utterly hostile at times and treating their own incompetence as your fault.
It's true that you will have people singing praises for KAL due to a few recent upgrades for foreign pilots from lower fleets up to the bigger shiny jets. Mind you, all is hunky dory until one fine day, you fall foul of their system. You may not even know why. Any Kim, Park or Lee amongst their employees can put in a confidential report against you with you being none the wiser. A simple mistake or oversight on your part will be treated as a great catastrophe by them so that they can humiliate you or put you in your place. Of course, there were chaps who grovelled and licked arses to get off, but they certainly lost their souls.
It always seems silly when you have ignoramuses coming onboard to simg praises for the much vaunted " commuting contract ". Once those Chinese airlines and pilot agencies can get their acts together, the exodus will begin. As of now many good local Korean pilots are leaving in droves. What's left are the utterly lost causes of pilots who swagger as Kijangnims! Maybe nincompoops will be a better title than kijangnims!
Incompetent f/o's who can hardly understand simple instructions in English beyond what is scripted. Constant misunderstanding of ATC clearances and instructions requiring incessant cross checks, re verifications and reconfirmations in crowded frquencies.
Pilots dozing off without telling you that they needed controlled rests. F/o selecting gear up at initiation of flare maneuver now kept tightly wrapped up.
F/o s dead scared to make changes to " scripted " PAs because should they make a small mistake and a passenger complains, this " misadventure " goes into their files and the command upgrades will be deferred! You will finf F/Os practising PA's aloud in the cockpit ( to the detriment of cockpit monitoring ) several times just prior to making even a scripted PA from the announcement book! The Chairman had struck such fear in utterly unimportant issues in PA! You can imagine the stress and fear the pilots harbour in more important matters.
Your professional skills are gradually eroded as you need to keep monitoring these pathetic chaps every minute you fly with them. Of course there are some competent ones, far in between!
Ground staff at crew service plazas and ticketing counters treating pilots
as if they are their enemies, utterly hostile at times and treating their own incompetence as your fault.
It's true that you will have people singing praises for KAL due to a few recent upgrades for foreign pilots from lower fleets up to the bigger shiny jets. Mind you, all is hunky dory until one fine day, you fall foul of their system. You may not even know why. Any Kim, Park or Lee amongst their employees can put in a confidential report against you with you being none the wiser. A simple mistake or oversight on your part will be treated as a great catastrophe by them so that they can humiliate you or put you in your place. Of course, there were chaps who grovelled and licked arses to get off, but they certainly lost their souls.
It always seems silly when you have ignoramuses coming onboard to simg praises for the much vaunted " commuting contract ". Once those Chinese airlines and pilot agencies can get their acts together, the exodus will begin. As of now many good local Korean pilots are leaving in droves. What's left are the utterly lost causes of pilots who swagger as Kijangnims! Maybe nincompoops will be a better title than kijangnims!
