Leaving the Sandbox for Asia - change of scenery

[Handy Dandy]

Time for a change of scenery - Leaving the sandbox and moving to Asia. Experienced A320 F/O.


Would appreciate any updated info from other expat professionals sharing information on this forum and currently flying in Taiwan, Vietnam, China, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, or Myanmar. Looking forward to the big move and living in Asia. Would really like to hear about your current:

* Rosters
* Pay Scales
* Vacation
* Travel Benefits
* Upgrade Opportunities
* Overall Satisfaction with the job
* Lifestyles in the respective country
* 'Real' expenses of living there
* Contract Company used (if any)
* etc

I've read lots of these threads, and know there is a lot of great info being shared on here, but hard to get to the good stuff while sifting through the millions of useless comments posted by the kids. So please - only serious replies from pros who know what they're talking about and wouldn't mind sharing. That being said - all info is appreciated, and thanks in advance.


PM's would definitely be great.












Handy Dandy

[Metro man]

Married or single ? Children ? Probably the biggest factors in deciding what's best.

If you're single and want a quick upgrade try Vietjet, possibly Tiger Taiwan.

Many countries won't accept expat F/Os and if they do promotion may be a problem. Get yourself upgraded ASAP and then you can pick and choose the more desirable jobs.

Start with Vietnam, Taiwan, China, Myanmar, Malaysia, Thailand in that order.

Forget Japan unless you can pass an astronaut medical and fancy spending 12-18 months doing your whole licence all over again.

Be careful with China, there are good opportunities but read through the other threads first.

Malaysia and Thailand don't want foreigners.

Cambodia may be worth a look as well.

[bringbackthe80s]

Funny because my advice would be to definitely start with Japan before anywhere else...I guess to each his own. It's an awesome country with plenty of opportunities at the moment (yeh yeh I know, more opportunities if you are a captain, but still).
How can anyone advice Cambodia Burma or Malaysia I can't really understand..

Anyway, best of luck.

[safelife]

You asked for

* Rosters
* Pay Scales
* Vacation
* Travel Benefits

so you can definitely wipe Myanmar off your list.
None of these things do exist in there.

[Metro man]

Asia is a huge and diverse place, each country has advantages and disadvantages which will depend on personal circumstances. Expensive school fees won't matter if he's single.

Start ups in less desirable countries will provide for quicker advancement and provided he meets the requirements, he could be upgraded within 12 months. After a couple of years in the left hand seat, options open up.

Japan will require at least a year, all the written exams, flight tests and the physical standards of an astronaut before he starts in the right hand seat again with who knows how long to upgrade. With Vietjet he could already be flying as a captain by then.

Golden Myanmar and Bakassa Air (Cambodia) would be worth looking into as would Jetstar in Vietnam or Singapore. Indonesia might be worth considering as well.

P.S. Hong Kong Airlines are recruiting at the moment as well.

[PoppaJo]

My advice would be similar to above, look at Vietjet in Vietnam, or Tiger Airways in Taiwan, do a few years, then launch into a A320 gig in Singapore. Vietjet will start rapid expansion shortly and will need crew, they have quite a few expats there.

Mate of mine went into Vietjet FO to CPT 12months, moved across to Jetstar FO to Captain 18months, then luckily got a transfer to Jetstar Australia (Singapore was also an option).

[Pin Head]

And if you are on the 737NG?

[The Dominican]

decoder Other then the Air Japan gig, are there any other opportunities in Japan for first officers?

NCA is hiring F/O's as well

[Handy Dandy]

Thanks guys. Appreciate all the good info and opinions.


There are too many interesting options in Asia, makes it hard to chose - even as an F/O. Mostly I'm interested in a great place to live, interesting culture, good people, good night life, good day life, decent pay with upgrade in future. Vietnam, Taiwan, Singapore... etc, they all sound good. After living in the desert for so long, these places all sound like paradise - even for half the pay. Yeah, I know that sounds crazy. And of course I know no company or place is perfect. Just looking for a good one and stick around.


Would like to hear any first hand personal experiences with working in these respective countries and companies, about the people involved, average day of work, going out on the town, layovers, fellow crew, etc. Got a few good PM's from a few nice guys and they're a great eye opener into the real life of working there. I don't go on these forums often though, so not even sure if this is the right way to answer.


Dan

[kinteafrokunta]

Some ex-EK kiwi worked with KAL for sometime, found the training and check system totally intolerable AND WALKED OUT OF THE CHECK. Bravo! Way to go, voted with his feet.

[avoka]

Hi guys
The same problem
I have so many A-320 hours,but there isn't an opportunity to get upgrade.I strongly consider TTW. Any comments?
There's not any info at all about this company (T/C, atmosphere into the company,opportunity to get LHS upgrade)
And one more:I heard some rumors some time ago,that TRs from CAA of Taiwan aren't recognized ICAO.Have You got any ideas about it?
SAFE FLIGHTS

[QNH1013]

KAL will not upgrade expat F/O's and is you are on 320 you will need to pay for your own 330 rating before joining.

Singapore is decent for expats but expensive and if you have kids factor your international school costs before deciding.

[Fratemate]

Forget Japan unless you can pass an astronaut medical and fancy spending 12-18 months doing your whole licence all over again.

Japan will require at least a year, all the written exams, flight tests and the physical standards of an astronaut before he starts in the right hand seat again with who knows how long to upgrade

Okay, let's remove some of the exaggeration so the OP can make an informed decision.

1. The medical is not to astronaut standards. They require you to have a reasonable BMI (with, I believe, a limit of 28 for the initial medical) and the tests for the initial are no different to any other initial test I've had under EASA, FAA & CASA. I will admit they do seem to be keen on eye tests but the field-of-view test is the only one I'd never come across before. ECG & chest X-ray are normal. Stress ECG (treadmill) on the initial but that's not a big deal. EEG on the initial and then not repeated. Blood tests are an annual thing which seems to be an Asian thing, because the 'Western' medicals only seem to have the pin prick for haemoglobin. Hearing test is standard. Now, I know about a lot of the medicals in the US etc where walking into the clinic counts as a pass but the Japanese ones are not the intensive and difficult tests that rumour has them to be. A rumour probably touted by those with a BMI of 40 who were out on the town the night before and wondered why they weren't successful.

2. You won't be under training for 12-18 months. Yes, the training is far too long compared to how it's done almost everywhere else but even direct entry captains, with a longer course than FOs, will get it done in 7 months. I believe AJX have shortened this because direct entry captains are now required to have a JCAB ATPL, so obviously they don't have to do a lot of the initial stuff.

3. You won't do your whole licence all over again (especially when you consider the EASA exams). You'll do air law and radio written tests and those, combined with the sim check, are enough for them to convert your foreign ATPL to a JCAB version. No difference to anywhere else in the world really; well, I've always had to do an air law exam to convert my licences. This, under the AJX scheme, is done when you first get to Japan and then they crack on with the 767 ground school etc. It only takes a couple of weeks.

4. Upgrades really are not a matter of 'who knows'. Our guys get assessed around the 3 year mark and then start their upgrade 'training' at about 3.5 years. Of course, they have to be able to demonstrate the unique qualities that are required by the Japanese (knowledge of irrelevant rules being far more important than flying ability or management skills) but with 3 years under your belt you'll be more than equipped to deal with that BS.

Japan is not my favourite Asian country and I could have a LOT more fun in Vietnam, Thailand etc BUT I do not live in Japan; it is ONLY a place of work. I go home when I've done my stint and that is far, far more important than where I can get the cheapest beer. Places like Myanmar are great places to visit but I would not want to work there. Still very 3rd world and with wages to match their economy. It kind of reminds me of backpacker hotels; they're a bit of fun when you're young and things don't matter too much but then you get older and more serious and 5* become more your thing. Not as much fun but more comfortable and a lot more stable.

[jrmyl]

I agree with Frate, the physical is not an astronaut physical. I pass it and I haven't exercised in over 20 years. I am also about 20 pounds too heavy which equates to about 40 pounds too heavy for the Japanese. So yes, it is tougher than the US physicals but no where near an astronaut physical.

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Don't let these guys blow too many kisses at you regarding the JCAB medical. The Initial medical is one of the most difficult in all of Asia to pass. I have 6 years in China, 23 years in the Air Force and 2 other Asian countries where I passed medicals and ended up failing the initial JCAB medical. They won't even tell you why or give you any feedback. I have some small issues with my ECG and suspect this is why but don't know for certain. The hearing test is extremely difficult and it starts and ends with a much softer decibel, many I never even heard a tone. They didn't use a treadmill stress test instead I climbed up blocks of wooden stairs for 30 minutes and then they did my ECG both before and after the stress workout. The eye tests were much more complex and the machines they use had issues as they couldn't get them to function properly for almost 30 minutes and then it was like Star Wars with flashing peripheral lights everywhere. The blood parameters seem to be more complex than any I remember in the military. I have heard the recurrent tests are much simpler and if you have issues they will work with you rather than against you as is the case with the initial. There are some decent gigs for pilot employment in Japan but be prepared for a difficult, extremely thorough and demanding Initial JCAB medical.

[The Dominican]

And then again...., most people pass the dreaded JCAB medical.

[typhoonpilot]

I heard some rumors some time ago,that TRs from CAA of Taiwan aren't recognized ICAO.Have You got any ideas about it?

The most important thing is that the hours still count. You already have a license so it doesn't really matter to you. It has more of an adverse affect on a Taiwanese pilot who only has a Taiwanese license.


TP

[TurbanPIC]

Take Action

Just apply to the airlines with fast upgrades that guys mentioned above and go to the first one that hires you. You'll be halfway to captain by the time you get done hemming and hawing here on PPRUNE. Take action.

[Oscar84]

Good answer TurbanPIC

[typhoonpilot]

It's actually a very simplistic and naïve answer. One should look carefully at the business model of the carrier; their future growth plans; their current pilot list; current upgrade time; projected attrition; projected upgrade time for someone hired today based on the growth plans and attrition; rosters; quality of life; benefits; cost of living; long term career growth potential; culture of the host country; flight deck culture of the specific carrier; and a whole host of other factors.


Typhoonpilot