Contract Agencies… How does this work???
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Contract Agencies… How does this work???
Gents…
Forgive my naivety, but I'm venturing into my first foray of Contract Agency flying and I'm wondering if any of you can explain the process to a new guy...
I realize there is a Rants & Kudos thread for this but I'm more curious as to the actual process and mechanics of it all than the "sticky thread" offers.
I've signed up with a well known agency mentioned many times on this forum.
* How do you know if all the paperwork you've sent in is complete. I have not received anything other than they've received it. How does one know if it's complete?
* Is the paperwork automatically sent to each airline you've expressed an interest in flying with?
* Is it more the airline itself or the contract agency that decides who will be invited in for the interview?
* Lastly, to verify a pilot is with one particularly agency, is there an "id number" or some such associated reference or registration number that the pilot is supposed to receive identifying him/her with that agency?
Thanks guys for any info you can offer and share. Very much appreciated.
Kap
Forgive my naivety, but I'm venturing into my first foray of Contract Agency flying and I'm wondering if any of you can explain the process to a new guy...
I realize there is a Rants & Kudos thread for this but I'm more curious as to the actual process and mechanics of it all than the "sticky thread" offers.
I've signed up with a well known agency mentioned many times on this forum.
* How do you know if all the paperwork you've sent in is complete. I have not received anything other than they've received it. How does one know if it's complete?
* Is the paperwork automatically sent to each airline you've expressed an interest in flying with?
* Is it more the airline itself or the contract agency that decides who will be invited in for the interview?
* Lastly, to verify a pilot is with one particularly agency, is there an "id number" or some such associated reference or registration number that the pilot is supposed to receive identifying him/her with that agency?
Thanks guys for any info you can offer and share. Very much appreciated.
Kap
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I'm not laughing at his post...., this is a professional pilot requesting help from his colleagues because he knows exactly the same about contract through an agency flying as you did before you got involved with it..., which is nothing! So in the same way somebody took the time to explain it to you, maybe it will be more appropriate to share what you know instead of a junior high response.
How do you know if all the paperwork you've sent in is complete. I have not received anything other than they've received it. How does one know if it's complete?
The first thing you need to do KAP is not to assume that an agency is on top of things or that they are "in the know" of how your application is going..., they are NOT that organized nor vested into personalized service...!
The short answer is that you don't, so you have to follow up and be on them to make sure all your paperwork is complete because things fall very easily through the cracks...! If you are interested in a particular airline, be proactive with emails, calls to follow up on the status of your application.
* Is the paperwork automatically sent to each airline you've expressed an interest in flying with?
No, the system is not that efficient at all...! YOU have to do the legwork and most of these agencies will accept your information on their site but not do anything with it! most of the time these jobs require you to click to apply to each one of them...! It is frustrating I know..., but a lot of times you have to input the same information on each particular application that you spent a few hours downloading into the agency's site.
* Is it more the airline itself or the contract agency that decides who will be invited in for the interview?
The airline...., the agency would filter those that don't meet the criteria etc. but the airline is the one that calls those they want to see. Some agencies have a prescreening process to try to save money for the airline and filter the guys that can't chew gum and raise the gear at the same time, but out of the most desirable candidates, the airline makes the call.
* Lastly, to verify a pilot is with one particularly agency, is there an "id number" or some such associated reference or registration number that the pilot is supposed to receive identifying him/her with that agency?
Not sure I get the question..., You mean after you are hired?
Not that I have seen.., at least on my experience it has been just an employee number assigned by the company and not by the agency...! Not sure if I answered your question or not....????
How do you know if all the paperwork you've sent in is complete. I have not received anything other than they've received it. How does one know if it's complete?
The first thing you need to do KAP is not to assume that an agency is on top of things or that they are "in the know" of how your application is going..., they are NOT that organized nor vested into personalized service...!
The short answer is that you don't, so you have to follow up and be on them to make sure all your paperwork is complete because things fall very easily through the cracks...! If you are interested in a particular airline, be proactive with emails, calls to follow up on the status of your application.
* Is the paperwork automatically sent to each airline you've expressed an interest in flying with?
No, the system is not that efficient at all...! YOU have to do the legwork and most of these agencies will accept your information on their site but not do anything with it! most of the time these jobs require you to click to apply to each one of them...! It is frustrating I know..., but a lot of times you have to input the same information on each particular application that you spent a few hours downloading into the agency's site.
* Is it more the airline itself or the contract agency that decides who will be invited in for the interview?
The airline...., the agency would filter those that don't meet the criteria etc. but the airline is the one that calls those they want to see. Some agencies have a prescreening process to try to save money for the airline and filter the guys that can't chew gum and raise the gear at the same time, but out of the most desirable candidates, the airline makes the call.
* Lastly, to verify a pilot is with one particularly agency, is there an "id number" or some such associated reference or registration number that the pilot is supposed to receive identifying him/her with that agency?
Not sure I get the question..., You mean after you are hired?
Not that I have seen.., at least on my experience it has been just an employee number assigned by the company and not by the agency...! Not sure if I answered your question or not....????
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Dom…
Thanks very much for that information! Your info was exactly what I was looking for.
My reasoning for posting the questions here were to get a pilots perspective rather than than from the agency itself… which I feel would be much more valuable.
Dom, check your PM's.
Kap
Thanks very much for that information! Your info was exactly what I was looking for.
My reasoning for posting the questions here were to get a pilots perspective rather than than from the agency itself… which I feel would be much more valuable.
Dom, check your PM's.
Kap
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A lot of the agencies can be a bit hit and miss. Best to stick to the bigger players with the better reputations I guess as they're more likely to be up front although I guess this is not always the case. More and more pilots are working through agencies these days, there was an article in Flight this week about more than ever self-employed.
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Contract Pilot 101
Agencies do not work for you....THEY WORK FOR THE AIRLINE. You do not pay them, Agencies receive renumeration from the Airline....not you.
Some Rich and Worthless agencies actually pay you less than the airline would have and pocket the excess.
You, as a contract pilot are an expendable item. More commonly known as a "AviaWhore".
If you are going to enter the Expat contract World, do yourself a good deed and don't attempt to regulate the process with morality.....it does not exist it this realm.
Some Rich and Worthless agencies actually pay you less than the airline would have and pocket the excess.
You, as a contract pilot are an expendable item. More commonly known as a "AviaWhore".
If you are going to enter the Expat contract World, do yourself a good deed and don't attempt to regulate the process with morality.....it does not exist it this realm.
KapitanL regarding your paperwork/Docs. Don't be surprised if the Company you
are joining ask for the same stuff and more you sent to the recruiting agency before.
They often seem to have no clue or maybe just Do not care about Foreign License conversion or Validation of your home License etc etc
so you can get on with flying.
Bring at least 2 dozen Passport Pics with you as well!
Regard's
are joining ask for the same stuff and more you sent to the recruiting agency before.
They often seem to have no clue or maybe just Do not care about Foreign License conversion or Validation of your home License etc etc
so you can get on with flying.
Bring at least 2 dozen Passport Pics with you as well!
Regard's
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Longreach Aviation
Dear Gents,
I recently expressed interest in the Air China Cargo Non Type-Rated B777 Captain contract through Longreach Aviation, was welcomed quickly into their database, and, after a few email exchanges, was told we'd just have to wait and see.
Could it be that my credentials were simply passed over by ACC?...And how often am I to remind the Recruiter of my interest? (Yes, this is the first time that I've contacted an agency.)
(Currently 11000 tt and a B738 LHS)
Thanks
I recently expressed interest in the Air China Cargo Non Type-Rated B777 Captain contract through Longreach Aviation, was welcomed quickly into their database, and, after a few email exchanges, was told we'd just have to wait and see.
Could it be that my credentials were simply passed over by ACC?...And how often am I to remind the Recruiter of my interest? (Yes, this is the first time that I've contacted an agency.)
(Currently 11000 tt and a B738 LHS)
Thanks
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Azzuri..
From what I've been gathering in my quest for understanding how it works, the world of contract aviation flying is one where you probably need to make things happen with a lot of input from yourself to the contract agency than not.
Yes, the contract agency works for the airline BUT they also work for you (us) and stand to make a good bit of coin if they get us and interview and ultimately hired, which makes everyone happy.
You also need to watch the advert pages from Flightglobal etc to make sure they're hiring. Don't know the status of the one you mentioned.
Kap
From what I've been gathering in my quest for understanding how it works, the world of contract aviation flying is one where you probably need to make things happen with a lot of input from yourself to the contract agency than not.
Yes, the contract agency works for the airline BUT they also work for you (us) and stand to make a good bit of coin if they get us and interview and ultimately hired, which makes everyone happy.
You also need to watch the advert pages from Flightglobal etc to make sure they're hiring. Don't know the status of the one you mentioned.
Kap
Last edited by Kapitanleutnant; 3rd Mar 2015 at 04:53.
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Longreach , I believe, is a couple of Cathay A scalers based in Perth and Sydney using their
housewives to do the secretarial duties while they work full time for Cathay bouncing between Oz AND Hong Kong.
No surprises really they take so long to get back to you.
Most of the pilots here in Oz go through GABS as it is Wally's Full time job, he is a great bloke, doesn't hit you up for a bond and communicates well.
housewives to do the secretarial duties while they work full time for Cathay bouncing between Oz AND Hong Kong.
No surprises really they take so long to get back to you.
Most of the pilots here in Oz go through GABS as it is Wally's Full time job, he is a great bloke, doesn't hit you up for a bond and communicates well.
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Mr Oosik,
I take exemption to the fact that you have painted me as being a whore.
I have for the last 22 years provided for my family, and have taken pride in my work.
I find your comment offensive, and would like to stoop lower, by saying that i sincerely hope you will develop a rare form of testicular growth, commensurate with your stupidity.
I take exemption to the fact that you have painted me as being a whore.
I have for the last 22 years provided for my family, and have taken pride in my work.
I find your comment offensive, and would like to stoop lower, by saying that i sincerely hope you will develop a rare form of testicular growth, commensurate with your stupidity.
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Generally speaking, you'll need to apply to multiple agencies AS WELL AS the carrier itself (if possible). Then go with whomever offers you up the best deal. I've taken a contract through an agency for an airline, then left for a few years and came back going directly through the airline. The reason? The agencies offered little value and if anything were a bottleneck in the process.
In the 90s, agencies were the way to go. They really backed the pilot. But when the internet took off the contract world exploded and with that so too did the number of applicants. So the better agencies simply couldn't compete by backing the pilot as there was another agency willing to do the gig for less pay and less pilot-advocacy. Even the best had to succumb to their pay master, the airline hiring for said contract. As the others mentioned, the agency works for the airline, not you. Of course they'll claim otherwise but this is the new reality for pretty much the past 12-15 years.
I've always said the contract world is full of misfits and mercenaries. It's a generalization, sure, and such a statement isn't meant as a jab at any given pilot's skills. But you'll find pilots who allow the company to get away with changing T&Cs at a whim and it really undermines our profession. If you're the only one refusing to allow changes to the contract, well you're the odd man out. I've had situations where the company cuts our housing allowance by 50%, just because. I call all the other contract pilots and we all agree to refuse the change. But as I charge up the hill I quickly learn there's no calvary behind me. Every one folds and I'm left on the tip of the spear. Fine, whatever, the next time they want me to fight one of their battles, I'm out. And so goes the contract world. You're on your own.
The way I use to run myself in the contract world, is to constantly be ready to bolt somewhere else as and when the airline threatened me with whatever action because I was holding their feet to the fire on the contract. Never get too comfortable and NEVER lay down any roots. Always be ready to go that night of you have to. But that can be exhausting, so it's not an easy feat. Most times when asked to do something like cover a flight that the locals wouldn't do, I'd gauge my willingness to help on whether they were following the rules (the contract) lately. And if pay was late, as it often was, I simply would never play ball.
In short, you're on your own in the contract world. Don't expect the T&Cs to be followed to the letter. But then you can create your own opportunities in that process. Where theres chaos there is opportunity. And most of these airlines are in a constant state of chaos or crisis. For example, when they were really short captains and needed my help for this or that flight, I would only agree to do it for extra days off. Then I would add that to my block off. 2 days here, 3 days there, it adds. Usually I'd get an extra 2-3 weeks added to my block off. Oh, and I'd make them send me a letter of commendation every time I helped. If they weren't willing to step up to my terms for that given moment, then neither was I interested in helping out and I'd simply hang up the phone. They learn pretty quick.
Another contract I worked, where I was the CP, I negotiated First Class travel home for all my pilots and a nice raise simply because they refused to hire more crews and existing pilots were quitting w/o notice. They wanted those of us remaining to shoulder the burden. So in that chaos that was the daily operation, we made progress for our own lives. Of course getting them to now follow what they agreed to is the other half of that battle.
In the 90s, agencies were the way to go. They really backed the pilot. But when the internet took off the contract world exploded and with that so too did the number of applicants. So the better agencies simply couldn't compete by backing the pilot as there was another agency willing to do the gig for less pay and less pilot-advocacy. Even the best had to succumb to their pay master, the airline hiring for said contract. As the others mentioned, the agency works for the airline, not you. Of course they'll claim otherwise but this is the new reality for pretty much the past 12-15 years.
I've always said the contract world is full of misfits and mercenaries. It's a generalization, sure, and such a statement isn't meant as a jab at any given pilot's skills. But you'll find pilots who allow the company to get away with changing T&Cs at a whim and it really undermines our profession. If you're the only one refusing to allow changes to the contract, well you're the odd man out. I've had situations where the company cuts our housing allowance by 50%, just because. I call all the other contract pilots and we all agree to refuse the change. But as I charge up the hill I quickly learn there's no calvary behind me. Every one folds and I'm left on the tip of the spear. Fine, whatever, the next time they want me to fight one of their battles, I'm out. And so goes the contract world. You're on your own.
The way I use to run myself in the contract world, is to constantly be ready to bolt somewhere else as and when the airline threatened me with whatever action because I was holding their feet to the fire on the contract. Never get too comfortable and NEVER lay down any roots. Always be ready to go that night of you have to. But that can be exhausting, so it's not an easy feat. Most times when asked to do something like cover a flight that the locals wouldn't do, I'd gauge my willingness to help on whether they were following the rules (the contract) lately. And if pay was late, as it often was, I simply would never play ball.
In short, you're on your own in the contract world. Don't expect the T&Cs to be followed to the letter. But then you can create your own opportunities in that process. Where theres chaos there is opportunity. And most of these airlines are in a constant state of chaos or crisis. For example, when they were really short captains and needed my help for this or that flight, I would only agree to do it for extra days off. Then I would add that to my block off. 2 days here, 3 days there, it adds. Usually I'd get an extra 2-3 weeks added to my block off. Oh, and I'd make them send me a letter of commendation every time I helped. If they weren't willing to step up to my terms for that given moment, then neither was I interested in helping out and I'd simply hang up the phone. They learn pretty quick.
Another contract I worked, where I was the CP, I negotiated First Class travel home for all my pilots and a nice raise simply because they refused to hire more crews and existing pilots were quitting w/o notice. They wanted those of us remaining to shoulder the burden. So in that chaos that was the daily operation, we made progress for our own lives. Of course getting them to now follow what they agreed to is the other half of that battle.
Last edited by Geebz; 30th Mar 2015 at 22:39.
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Excellent Post Geebz! Thanks for that.
As far as using multiple agencies at one time… from what I can gather, this is not really allowed. For example, I signed an agreement with my agency that I'd use them exclusively for a particular airline of which two other agencies are also recruiting for. Maybe I misread what you were trying to convey….??
Kap
As far as using multiple agencies at one time… from what I can gather, this is not really allowed. For example, I signed an agreement with my agency that I'd use them exclusively for a particular airline of which two other agencies are also recruiting for. Maybe I misread what you were trying to convey….??
Kap
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But then again, Kenya was a loooooong time ago.
