Indian DGCA Standards of Service
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Indian DGCA Standards of Service
The Indian DGCA has come out with document indicating the normal time periods for delivery of services including approval of pilots license
According to the document they will issue pilots license for issue of CPL within 1 month provided all the documents are in order and you meet the necessary requirements
For conversion its 6 weeks as the DGCA needs to contact the civil aviation authorities and get a direct response from them in order to verify the foreign pilot license
http://www.dgca.nic.in/dgca/Standard...20Services.pdf
According to the document they will issue pilots license for issue of CPL within 1 month provided all the documents are in order and you meet the necessary requirements
For conversion its 6 weeks as the DGCA needs to contact the civil aviation authorities and get a direct response from them in order to verify the foreign pilot license
http://www.dgca.nic.in/dgca/Standard...20Services.pdf
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INDIAN DGCA affecting business
Foreigners wanting to join Indian carriers are requested before FATA is issued that their former employers provide details of your flying experience by mail directly to them. Indian companies are affected by this delays as DGCA imposes rules that do not have any jurisdiction away from India.
Several pilots have requested their former companies records of flying experience and other documents. If lucky, YOU as a former employee can get documents signed and stamped. This is as far as you can go assuming this info will suffice wherever you go. But forcing pilots to produce an email with flying experience to be sent directly to a third party by your former employer is mind boggling.
This is INDIAN DGCA latest requirement they will delay your FATA issuance or simply, they will put your job in jeopardy as a result. Indian Airliners cannot allow foreigners to fly Indian registered aircraft unless they have FATA issued.
Have Indian DGCA ever contemplated the fact that their jurisdiction is only within Indian territory? Do they follow international standards? The FAA has downgraded them due insufficient personnel overseeing all operations; are we now at the mercy of some inept individuals? Or perhaps retired Air India pilots who worked under repression in the past, and using this tactics as an excuse to ward off foreign workers in their home land?
It only affects Indian carriers, foreign pilots can always find new horizons with more transparency.
Several pilots have requested their former companies records of flying experience and other documents. If lucky, YOU as a former employee can get documents signed and stamped. This is as far as you can go assuming this info will suffice wherever you go. But forcing pilots to produce an email with flying experience to be sent directly to a third party by your former employer is mind boggling.
This is INDIAN DGCA latest requirement they will delay your FATA issuance or simply, they will put your job in jeopardy as a result. Indian Airliners cannot allow foreigners to fly Indian registered aircraft unless they have FATA issued.
Have Indian DGCA ever contemplated the fact that their jurisdiction is only within Indian territory? Do they follow international standards? The FAA has downgraded them due insufficient personnel overseeing all operations; are we now at the mercy of some inept individuals? Or perhaps retired Air India pilots who worked under repression in the past, and using this tactics as an excuse to ward off foreign workers in their home land?
It only affects Indian carriers, foreign pilots can always find new horizons with more transparency.
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What the DGCA is asking isnt all that ridiculous. Its easy to get a letter from a Chief Pilot attesting to your experience at an employer, and its a good idea as there are many scammers pretending to be pilots that have a lot of time in type who have really only spend time filing in their logbooks pretending to fly a plane.
I know I replaced a expat who had some dubious records and had no idea how to fly the plane he was employed on as a experienced Captain.
I know I replaced a expat who had some dubious records and had no idea how to fly the plane he was employed on as a experienced Captain.
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First of all, the term "Standard of Service" must me included within the definitions of the Indian CARs.
Secondly, the personnel within the Indian DGCAS must understand the melanin in of the term "Standard of Service".
Thirdly the personnel within the Indian DGCA must learn to carry out their offices to those standards as the term "Standard of Service" contained in Indian CARs.
It's unfortunate the employees of the Indian DGCAS carry out their duties with emotion rather than the term "Standard of Service" as needs to be defined in Indian CARs.
Don't go their chum, as their are quite a few fraudulent pilots from the land of the Incredibles which caused a mass firing from an Asian carrier in recent years.
Secondly, the personnel within the Indian DGCAS must understand the melanin in of the term "Standard of Service".
Thirdly the personnel within the Indian DGCA must learn to carry out their offices to those standards as the term "Standard of Service" contained in Indian CARs.
It's unfortunate the employees of the Indian DGCAS carry out their duties with emotion rather than the term "Standard of Service" as needs to be defined in Indian CARs.
I know I replaced a expat who had some dubious records and had no idea how to fly the plane he was employed on as a experienced Captain.
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I think that in his eagerness to criticize as usual captjns didn't go through the document.
It is a 72 page detailed document that covers Pilots, Engineers,Foreign airlines,Aerodromes,Airpace management,Schedules, Organistations and Other Services.
Most important here is to note that the idea behind this document seems to be to do away with unecessary bureaucratic delays for no valid reason.It is for the DGCA officers as much as it is for the general public.
Infact, I think it is very good that the document aims to remind the DGCA that they are here to provide a service.
Don't just mindlessly criticize every f
thing.
It is a 72 page detailed document that covers Pilots, Engineers,Foreign airlines,Aerodromes,Airpace management,Schedules, Organistations and Other Services.
Most important here is to note that the idea behind this document seems to be to do away with unecessary bureaucratic delays for no valid reason.It is for the DGCA officers as much as it is for the general public.
Infact, I think it is very good that the document aims to remind the DGCA that they are here to provide a service.
Don't just mindlessly criticize every f
thing.
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The proof is not in the words ont the document Apache... but in the behavior and quality of services delivered.... wouldn't you agree?
Many years pre and post document, I've experienced an increase in bureaucratic delays. I realize the British introduce bureaucracy to India. But let's face it... India perfected it to the nth degree.
If anything the issuances of Security Clearances, FATA, licenses for National pilot and Airport Security Passes have slowed to that of less than a snail's pace. That said may FOs I've flown with don't share your enthusiasm on words or promises written on fancy parchment.
Many years pre and post document, I've experienced an increase in bureaucratic delays. I realize the British introduce bureaucracy to India. But let's face it... India perfected it to the nth degree.
If anything the issuances of Security Clearances, FATA, licenses for National pilot and Airport Security Passes have slowed to that of less than a snail's pace. That said may FOs I've flown with don't share your enthusiasm on words or promises written on fancy parchment.
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There was never any clarity on when you would get your licenses/approvals from the DGCA once you had submitted the required documents.That the DGCA has come clear on this is a welcome step forward.
What are these documents that you are talking about ?
Airport Security Clearance and Security passes are under BCAS ( Bureau of Civil Aviation Security) if Im not mistaken.Im not sure what kind of a role DGCA has there.Look at Page 48 for your reference regarding FATA.
I hope things move a bit faster now.We'll see
Many years pre and post document, I've experienced an increase in bureaucratic delays
Airport Security Clearance and Security passes are under BCAS ( Bureau of Civil Aviation Security) if Im not mistaken.Im not sure what kind of a role DGCA has there.Look at Page 48 for your reference regarding FATA.
I hope things move a bit faster now.We'll see
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Thank you Captain Apache, but I am personally familiar with the processes of both FATA, BCAS. My FOs and fellow captains who are from India have expressed nothing short of frustration dealing with the bureaucracy. I'm sure, you as a pilot can share similar experiences too.
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I understand that the collective experience of all my countrymen with bureaucracy is very frustrating.
But why are the expats putting up with all this
The fact is that there are a lot of (much better) options for experienced Captains all over the world?In China
,Indonesia 
,Korea 
,Vietnam 
,Gulf 
,even beloved Africa 
-and the rest if you are allowed to stay.
But why are the expats putting up with all this
The fact is that there are a lot of (much better) options for experienced Captains all over the world?In China
,Indonesia ,Korea ,Vietnam ,Gulf ,even beloved Africa -and the rest if you are allowed to stay.
Last edited by Capt Apache; 26th Sep 2014 at 07:38.
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That's painting a very rosy picture.If expat life were really that great you wouldn't find so many people spewing venom all over these forums.
Its funny how people from the West find it perfectly adaptable when their government goes on to fight a war for 20 years, using their money -loses it (the war); then goes on to fight another war for 15 years, pretends to have won it but screws up again.......but hey Indian bureaucracy - that's not happening.
Go sort out your own governments first.Atleast we are not run by secret service
Its funny how people from the West find it perfectly adaptable when their government goes on to fight a war for 20 years, using their money -loses it (the war); then goes on to fight another war for 15 years, pretends to have won it but screws up again.......but hey Indian bureaucracy - that's not happening.
Go sort out your own governments first.Atleast we are not run by secret service
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So it's ok for a fellow desi to be subjected to the s*%t that is the Indian bureaucratic system??? You sound like that Bhanot chap from the CWG disaster who claimed that somehow Indian mediocrity should be considered on par with 'international' standards.
Easy to sarcastically ship off an expat since he isn't 'one of us' rather than accept that things in India are royal effed up and listen to what they have to say. Granted sometimes the comments can be a little over the top but I generally attribute that to frustration with the status quo. Are they wrong in their conclusions based on observations and first hand experiences? Don't think so. Do they have all the answers?? Definitely not. But a diverse viewpoint is certainly the need of the hour and generation.
You assume that the fiction that is the 72 page document will be the saviour of all pilots and people who are at the mercy of that hell hole we all know as DGCA.
Not a unique situation. Lotsa laws written or rewritten in India when most people who know the ground realites will say the existing laws are fine. It's the implementation and oversight that's lacking.
A document will achieve nothing unless the mindset and attitude changes. You're basically applying lipstick on a pig. I wish jns is wrong but I have a sneaking suspicion that nothing is really going to change. But I would really love to be wrong for the sake of all of us.
Easy to sarcastically ship off an expat since he isn't 'one of us' rather than accept that things in India are royal effed up and listen to what they have to say. Granted sometimes the comments can be a little over the top but I generally attribute that to frustration with the status quo. Are they wrong in their conclusions based on observations and first hand experiences? Don't think so. Do they have all the answers?? Definitely not. But a diverse viewpoint is certainly the need of the hour and generation.
You assume that the fiction that is the 72 page document will be the saviour of all pilots and people who are at the mercy of that hell hole we all know as DGCA.
Not a unique situation. Lotsa laws written or rewritten in India when most people who know the ground realites will say the existing laws are fine. It's the implementation and oversight that's lacking.
A document will achieve nothing unless the mindset and attitude changes. You're basically applying lipstick on a pig. I wish jns is wrong but I have a sneaking suspicion that nothing is really going to change. But I would really love to be wrong for the sake of all of us.
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I never said that it's okay for an Indian to be subjected to bureaucratic frustrations.We have our problems and we know it.
But it's awkward that people come here to lecture us from these so called Superpower countries that can't win a war against third world countries in 20 years.
But it's awkward that people come here to lecture us from these so called Superpower countries that can't win a war against third world countries in 20 years.
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Coming out with a document with well defined Standards of Service is a welcome step. Now an aggrieved party may approach a Court of Law for reprieve if DGCA does not process his application within a reasonable time period. Earlier if you would approach a court there would be a lot of delay while arguing on what a reasonable time period would be to process your application. Not any more.
We must realize that by bringing out this document, the DGCA is voluntarily imposing greater work load on its officers. It is quite similar to how the Right to Information Act has ended up imposing greater work load on government officers but has been quite effective at improving transparency.
Getting details of pilots' experience from their former employers seems to be a genuine demand. How would the DGCA know whether the records produced by a pilot are genuine or not? I wonder why people are so worried about this.
We must realize that by bringing out this document, the DGCA is voluntarily imposing greater work load on its officers. It is quite similar to how the Right to Information Act has ended up imposing greater work load on government officers but has been quite effective at improving transparency.
But forcing pilots to produce an email with flying experience to be sent directly to a third party by your former employer is mind boggling.
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There is nothing Genuine about DGCA's or CAA's
Billboard, you are missing the point in question.
It is not being worried about providing records, but how we are regulated this days to provide them; I can approach my former employer and request records of my position, flying time, etc; They in turn if their internal rules permit could issue ME with that information, but NOT to a third party even if requested by you. As a good illustration Chinese carriers are fascinated requesting Criminal Records, not by email, but though a universal recognized method of verifying authenticity, such as an Apostilled stamp from the high commission where you abode.
Emails could be hacked, you are exposing private information on an unsecured medium, and many have gotten away with Indian DGCA by just approaching a former friend from the company you belonged, just to tick the box and off you go. I am not surprised with Indians using this method, they are still using the former Bungalows from British rule as their headquarters in DEL, and it is not misery what they are victims of, but mere corruption. The recent FAA downgrading of Indian DGCA is not discriminatory, India needs infracstructure.
Now, should the DGCA or CAA questions your background, it is incumbent upon them to do their homework, the burden is on them; instead they put pilots to run base to get emails sent to an address in the cyberspace. So spare me the thought of being reluctant to send my private and confidential information to [email protected]
besides, what is the role of employment agencies when they recruit pilots? Any decent pilot should avoid flying under this criteria, not only DGCA's pose a burden to airlines, but an obstacle to progress.
It is not being worried about providing records, but how we are regulated this days to provide them; I can approach my former employer and request records of my position, flying time, etc; They in turn if their internal rules permit could issue ME with that information, but NOT to a third party even if requested by you. As a good illustration Chinese carriers are fascinated requesting Criminal Records, not by email, but though a universal recognized method of verifying authenticity, such as an Apostilled stamp from the high commission where you abode.
Emails could be hacked, you are exposing private information on an unsecured medium, and many have gotten away with Indian DGCA by just approaching a former friend from the company you belonged, just to tick the box and off you go. I am not surprised with Indians using this method, they are still using the former Bungalows from British rule as their headquarters in DEL, and it is not misery what they are victims of, but mere corruption. The recent FAA downgrading of Indian DGCA is not discriminatory, India needs infracstructure.
Now, should the DGCA or CAA questions your background, it is incumbent upon them to do their homework, the burden is on them; instead they put pilots to run base to get emails sent to an address in the cyberspace. So spare me the thought of being reluctant to send my private and confidential information to [email protected]
besides, what is the role of employment agencies when they recruit pilots? Any decent pilot should avoid flying under this criteria, not only DGCA's pose a burden to airlines, but an obstacle to progress.
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IZAD
It is not being worried about providing records, but how we are regulated this days to provide them;
besides, what is the role of employment agencies when they recruit pilots?
1) We shall trust everyone we come across unless someone gives us a reason to not trust him/her.
OR
2) We shall not trust anyone unless someone gives us a reason to trust him/her.
To avoid a long write up i would just like to draw your attention to the 2008-09 Sub prime crisis and the collapse and near collapse of large banks. There is absolutely no doubt that US Federal Bank was following the approach no. 1 listed above. Had the US Fed been less willing to place its trust in bank managements, things would not have turned out so bad. How many people lost their jobs for no fault of their own?
DGCA seems to be following approach no. 2. This approach has its disadvantages but is safer. And you cannot be serious about your point regarding employment agencies. Regulatory bodies should avoid outsourcing their oversight roles to private contractors.
Emails could be hacked, you are exposing private information on an unsecured medium
So spare me the thought of being reluctant to send my private and confidential information to [email protected]
Just for your information, websites of the Government of India are developed and managed by National Informatics Centre. They have their own cyber security team which collaborates with multiple intelligence agencies, the military and Indian IT companies to ensure security against attacks. I dont think anyone is going to break into government systems to steal your info.
