Xiamen Airlines
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Xiamen Airlines
Is anyone here from Xiamen Airlines who can tell em about the scheduling there? I was told by a pilot that there is going to be a 5 week on / 3 week off contract starting in October.
The same pilot who told me that also said the scheduling is rigorous for those 5 weeks. They took punitive action against some pilots who would not fly and sent a memo to the others (from his email):
Safety Management Bulletin
XIAMENAIR
Flight Operations Department
Notice of the Cancellation of MF8732
Flight MF8047 floin Qingdao to Harbin took an altemative landing
at Tianjin due to thunderstonn which caused an expected excess flight
time of the flight crew. The Scheduling made several plans to make up a
crew for the subsequent flight but all failed, which leads to the
cancellation of the flight MF8372 from Harbin to Zhengzhou. Following
is the details:
On August 14th, 2013. the flight crew of Wang Fan was conducting
the flight MF8047/8 (Hangzl1ou-Qingdao-Harbin-Qingdao-Hangzhou).
The crew made an alteinative landing at Tianjin airport due to the
thunderstorm when flying Qingdao to Harbin. The flight time was
expected to exceed the limitations for 8 hours if the flight crew of Wang
Fan continued to conduct the subsequent flights. In order to guarantee
flight punctuality, the Scheduling ananged another crew to take over the
flight Harbin -Qingdao-Hangzhou, and scheduled a standby crew to
conduct the flight Tianjin- Harbin-Zhengzhou. Several plans were made
according to the manpower staying outstation but all failed due to
personal reasons of the crews and other objective causes.
Plan A: Flight Crew of Xu Delong staying over at Tianjin conducts
the flight Tianjin- Harbin- Zhengzhou. Xu's teamleader believed he was
not suitable for conducting a night flight due to a long-tiine sick leave
from operation before. This plan was objected.
Plan B: Flight Crew of Wang Fan continues the flight from Tianjin
to Harbin and the crew of Jin Dachuan conducts the flight from
Harbin to Zhengzhou (Jin Dachuan finished his flight in Harbin. total
flight time was 4 hours and 12 minutes). Jin Dachuan reported to the
duty manager that he felt fatigued and could not conduct the flight.
Plan C: Flight Crew of Wang Fan continues the flight from Tianjin
to Harbin and the crew of Duan Lei conducts the flight from Harbin to
Zhengzhou (Duan Lei finished his flight in Harbin. His total flight tirne
was 4 hours and 30 minutes). However, Duan Lei had violated the
regulations and went to Qiqihar so that he could not conduct the flight.
Plan D: Flight Crew of Lin Xu who was staying over at Beijing
turns to Harbin to conduct the flight. Lin Xu also failed to take the duty
because he had taken some medicine for colds.
Finally the flight MF8372 from Harbin to Zhengzhou was canceled
since all back plans failed.
We have to see some pilots violated the regulations in the manual in
this event. It stipulated in “The Crew Dispatching Rules of Flight
Schedule Adjustment All Pilots Should Obey“ in “The Administrative
Manual of Flight Operations Department“ MF/3404-8, No.2: When
staying at the outstations, if the department adjusts the assignments
pilots should act in accordance to the adjusted ones. No.3: If a pilot holds
a different opinion against the adjusted flight schedule. he should act on
the principle of “executing first and appeal later“.
It is stipulated in “The Administrative Procedure of Standby Crew‘
in “The Administrative Manual of Flight Operations Department‘
MF/3404l-7*‘ “No.1.4: When being on duty at the stay-over base, pilots
should keep eflfective communication and shoulder the responsibility of
emergency standby. The pilots who are on duty at the stay-over base and
has no flight tasks should act as the standby crew. No.2.2.1: The standby
crew should report to the duty manager of the Flight Operations
Department and keep effective communication if it desires to leave the
standby location.“
It stipulated in “The Rules of Flight Hygiene Management“ in
“The Operations Manual“ MF0406-8“ No.3.5: Both before and
during the flight, all crew members should not take the liberty of taking
any medications which are not authorized by the aviation doctor or the
Ineclicines which may cause physiological disorders and affect the
execution of duty. No.62: Without pelmissions. crew members are not
allowed to seek medical advice or take medications from unauthorized
sources.
Fly Dept.
9 September 2013
The same pilot who told me that also said the scheduling is rigorous for those 5 weeks. They took punitive action against some pilots who would not fly and sent a memo to the others (from his email):
Safety Management Bulletin
XIAMENAIR
Flight Operations Department
Notice of the Cancellation of MF8732
Flight MF8047 floin Qingdao to Harbin took an altemative landing
at Tianjin due to thunderstonn which caused an expected excess flight
time of the flight crew. The Scheduling made several plans to make up a
crew for the subsequent flight but all failed, which leads to the
cancellation of the flight MF8372 from Harbin to Zhengzhou. Following
is the details:
On August 14th, 2013. the flight crew of Wang Fan was conducting
the flight MF8047/8 (Hangzl1ou-Qingdao-Harbin-Qingdao-Hangzhou).
The crew made an alteinative landing at Tianjin airport due to the
thunderstorm when flying Qingdao to Harbin. The flight time was
expected to exceed the limitations for 8 hours if the flight crew of Wang
Fan continued to conduct the subsequent flights. In order to guarantee
flight punctuality, the Scheduling ananged another crew to take over the
flight Harbin -Qingdao-Hangzhou, and scheduled a standby crew to
conduct the flight Tianjin- Harbin-Zhengzhou. Several plans were made
according to the manpower staying outstation but all failed due to
personal reasons of the crews and other objective causes.
Plan A: Flight Crew of Xu Delong staying over at Tianjin conducts
the flight Tianjin- Harbin- Zhengzhou. Xu's teamleader believed he was
not suitable for conducting a night flight due to a long-tiine sick leave
from operation before. This plan was objected.
Plan B: Flight Crew of Wang Fan continues the flight from Tianjin
to Harbin and the crew of Jin Dachuan conducts the flight from
Harbin to Zhengzhou (Jin Dachuan finished his flight in Harbin. total
flight time was 4 hours and 12 minutes). Jin Dachuan reported to the
duty manager that he felt fatigued and could not conduct the flight.
Plan C: Flight Crew of Wang Fan continues the flight from Tianjin
to Harbin and the crew of Duan Lei conducts the flight from Harbin to
Zhengzhou (Duan Lei finished his flight in Harbin. His total flight tirne
was 4 hours and 30 minutes). However, Duan Lei had violated the
regulations and went to Qiqihar so that he could not conduct the flight.
Plan D: Flight Crew of Lin Xu who was staying over at Beijing
turns to Harbin to conduct the flight. Lin Xu also failed to take the duty
because he had taken some medicine for colds.
Finally the flight MF8372 from Harbin to Zhengzhou was canceled
since all back plans failed.
We have to see some pilots violated the regulations in the manual in
this event. It stipulated in “The Crew Dispatching Rules of Flight
Schedule Adjustment All Pilots Should Obey“ in “The Administrative
Manual of Flight Operations Department“ MF/3404-8, No.2: When
staying at the outstations, if the department adjusts the assignments
pilots should act in accordance to the adjusted ones. No.3: If a pilot holds
a different opinion against the adjusted flight schedule. he should act on
the principle of “executing first and appeal later“.
It is stipulated in “The Administrative Procedure of Standby Crew‘
in “The Administrative Manual of Flight Operations Department‘
MF/3404l-7*‘ “No.1.4: When being on duty at the stay-over base, pilots
should keep eflfective communication and shoulder the responsibility of
emergency standby. The pilots who are on duty at the stay-over base and
has no flight tasks should act as the standby crew. No.2.2.1: The standby
crew should report to the duty manager of the Flight Operations
Department and keep effective communication if it desires to leave the
standby location.“
It stipulated in “The Rules of Flight Hygiene Management“ in
“The Operations Manual“ MF0406-8“ No.3.5: Both before and
during the flight, all crew members should not take the liberty of taking
any medications which are not authorized by the aviation doctor or the
Ineclicines which may cause physiological disorders and affect the
execution of duty. No.62: Without pelmissions. crew members are not
allowed to seek medical advice or take medications from unauthorized
sources.
Fly Dept.
9 September 2013
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Scheduling is pretty "rigorous" - good choice of words. Prepare to do anything, and do it with minimal notice - as is the norm at Chinese airlines. No bidding system exists. Schedulers assign flying according to company needs from day to day. Xiamen and the other companies do not have reserve lines; schedulers simply call up crews not already flying.
Think of it this way: Chinese airlines are Foxconn with wings.
1) Expect to start a 4 day block of flying with early morning flights and to return home on the last day on a late arrival. With flow control is could be well after midnight.
2) Crews on layover are considered to be standby crews, for use until they reach flight or duty limits. Phones must stay on and crews cannot leave the layover facility without permission.
3) If you do not have 8 hours of flying in a day, you may be assigned more, and pulled from your layover facility back to the airport.
4) Duty time stops when you get to the hotel or base facilities. Duty time resumes when you leave for your next flight.
5) Flight time starts with the first engine and ends when the last one is shut down. Flight time does not include flow control, which begins after the cabin door is closed.
6) Your mandated "rest" is not a well defined thing. It can be terminated with a new flight assignment and restarted after the new assignment is finished - flow control and all. Then you get your rest, even though you may be dangerously tired on the last leg. Rules specify the rest after flying, not rest before a given flight and duty period.
7) Culture is biased towards "production no matter the pain" in the national interest. For every problem, the faithful will work harder - just like "Boxer" in Orwell's "Animal Farm."
Hope this helps your decision making.
Think of it this way: Chinese airlines are Foxconn with wings.
1) Expect to start a 4 day block of flying with early morning flights and to return home on the last day on a late arrival. With flow control is could be well after midnight.
2) Crews on layover are considered to be standby crews, for use until they reach flight or duty limits. Phones must stay on and crews cannot leave the layover facility without permission.
3) If you do not have 8 hours of flying in a day, you may be assigned more, and pulled from your layover facility back to the airport.
4) Duty time stops when you get to the hotel or base facilities. Duty time resumes when you leave for your next flight.
5) Flight time starts with the first engine and ends when the last one is shut down. Flight time does not include flow control, which begins after the cabin door is closed.
6) Your mandated "rest" is not a well defined thing. It can be terminated with a new flight assignment and restarted after the new assignment is finished - flow control and all. Then you get your rest, even though you may be dangerously tired on the last leg. Rules specify the rest after flying, not rest before a given flight and duty period.
7) Culture is biased towards "production no matter the pain" in the national interest. For every problem, the faithful will work harder - just like "Boxer" in Orwell's "Animal Farm."
Hope this helps your decision making.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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with the 5/3 roster you get less pay, and almost no bonuses. Normally the 5/3 roster is offered after 18 months on a 6/2 roster.
Also you need to do about 130-135hrs in the 5/3 roster to not loose even more money. No matter if you fly less due to personal or rostering reasons.
Also you need to do about 130-135hrs in the 5/3 roster to not loose even more money. No matter if you fly less due to personal or rostering reasons.
What's happening there now for expats?
I have just seen an advert that offers 19 on, 11 off for 22k USD a month.
I have worked expat jobs around the world ( including Asia) and find that if I can always look forward to that monthly time off then I don't get too tired.
I do wonder though why they are offering such a good salary for 19 on 11 off .
Did they treat everyone so hard that they now have to?
I have just seen an advert that offers 19 on, 11 off for 22k USD a month.
I have worked expat jobs around the world ( including Asia) and find that if I can always look forward to that monthly time off then I don't get too tired.
I do wonder though why they are offering such a good salary for 19 on 11 off .
Did they treat everyone so hard that they now have to?
Join Date: May 2011
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According to my recent experience with XA, you can not trust them.
I was invited for assessment in March, I did a lot of work to get ready like studying for the ATP exam, doing pre medicals, getting a Visa, arranging time off and travel reservations.
A week before going to Xiamen, they sent me an email saying that they realized I was too old. i will be 55 at the end of this year.
I tried to discuss this issue with them but they didnt wanted. Decision was final.
it seems that these Chinese airlines are like nazis. I hate them.
I was invited for assessment in March, I did a lot of work to get ready like studying for the ATP exam, doing pre medicals, getting a Visa, arranging time off and travel reservations.
A week before going to Xiamen, they sent me an email saying that they realized I was too old. i will be 55 at the end of this year.
I tried to discuss this issue with them but they didnt wanted. Decision was final.
it seems that these Chinese airlines are like nazis. I hate them.
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Hi.
Just wondering if anyone is willing to share their experiences with Xiamen Airlines? In particular rostering for the non cummute option, average days off/month,
Training Standards ( Training vrs Checking), etc.
Also how life in Xiamen compares to other city's in China.
Thanks in advance.
SM
Just wondering if anyone is willing to share their experiences with Xiamen Airlines? In particular rostering for the non cummute option, average days off/month,
Training Standards ( Training vrs Checking), etc.
Also how life in Xiamen compares to other city's in China.
Thanks in advance.
SM
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Just regards Snowcats post where, in March after prepping for screening they "suddenly" discovered he would be 55 at the end of the year and, although met the stated age requirement he suddenly....didn't.
I'm now 55 - still meet the stated requirement - fortunately was told after application to agency that they had "just" decided they wouldn't be looking at applicants who had already turned 55.
Uncertainty may be the only certainty when looking at China, congrats to those at the right place/right time who can make it work for them.
Cheers!
I'm now 55 - still meet the stated requirement - fortunately was told after application to agency that they had "just" decided they wouldn't be looking at applicants who had already turned 55.
Uncertainty may be the only certainty when looking at China, congrats to those at the right place/right time who can make it work for them.
Cheers!
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I have some friends working in HNA on the 737, and I am getting ready to make a move aswell. Yes it is quite tough to get used to the country and crazy practices. One of my friends told me once, if you keep asking yourself why, then forget about china. A lot of things there do not make sense, especially in the airline industry in china. But in the end they are getting what they signed for (Money and days off). A big downside is the training period its basically time wasting for 6 month with reduced salary between 50-60% of your contract salary. You will basically learn nothing useful during this period, u just have to sit those month out...
So basically yes china is a crazy, but they are also paying crazy money for those who get out of their comfort zone and give it a try....
So basically yes china is a crazy, but they are also paying crazy money for those who get out of their comfort zone and give it a try....
