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Old 20th Feb 2012, 07:50   #1 (permalink)
 
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Kingfisher - whats their game plan

Kingfisher crisis deepens; govt says no bailout | Reuters

Reading about Kingfisher and more confused about what is going on.
What is their plan really? What are restructuring laws like in India. I'm guessing its not quite like the US else they would have declared bankruptcy already.
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Old 20th Feb 2012, 10:58   #2 (permalink)
 
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It needs to shut down.
Mallya needs to let his ego go and the Indian government needs to stop feeding his pride.
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Old 20th Feb 2012, 12:36   #3 (permalink)
 
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Game plan is to blame everyone except themselves for the current chaos. First it was the Bird strikes that caused the disruptions and now they claim its because the Tax department froze their accounts. What do you expect the tax department to do if you do not pay the taxes that you have deducted from the employees salaries? KFA is the most unreliable airline in Indian today. Today the Tax department froze its accounts, tomorrow the Oil companies will stop supplying fuel and day after tomorrow vendors will stop supplies... How long will this saga continue?? Nobody knows.
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Old 20th Feb 2012, 16:19   #4 (permalink)
 
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Game Plan? More like "Game Over"!
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Old 20th Feb 2012, 17:36   #5 (permalink)
 
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Now the horde of experienced ex KFA pilots with thousands of hours on type is going to make it almost impossible for airlines to want to hire low hour cpl holders.

KFA's demise is nothing to rejoice over.
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Old 20th Feb 2012, 17:52   #6 (permalink)
 
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Flanker, if the airlines are smart they won't take the ex KFA guys....

Why? Because if they are clever they take guys with no type rating and hours on type, and make money of their type rating and line flying = Free First Officers.
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Old 20th Feb 2012, 18:13   #7 (permalink)
 
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^ that is very true, two airlines in India are particularly good at that

Anyway the fact is that with so many experienced Indian pilots looking for a job, the freshers are going to find it extremely tough in the coming year at the least.

Interesting fact. I know of one KFA f/o on the A-320 who recently got hired onto Spicejet as a Q400 training captain.Now that is a change of scenery !
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Old 20th Feb 2012, 18:19   #8 (permalink)
 
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Frozen bank accounts led to disruptions: Kingfisher

"According to airline sources 35 pilots quit the airline last week without serving notice. "Most of them are joining IndiGo, which had promised bonus if they accept the offer by February 15,'' the source said. An equal number of pilots from Delhi have refused to fly since the last week, protesting delays in salary."
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Old 20th Feb 2012, 19:51   #9 (permalink)
 
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The only thing that is keeping KF alive is VJ's status as MP and influence on Govt Policy. All lenders and Lessors are in arrears and would love to repossess but fear the obstacles that would be raised if the aircraft recovery is deemed to be a repossession. One German Bank "repossessed" 2 aircraft last month and the DGCA immediately deregistered them so that the Bank could not fly them out.

Other lenders have found that their aircraft are in bits, robbed parts or engines in overhaul shops with large amounts of unpaid bills so the aircraft need to be rebuilt before they can be flown out.
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Old 20th Feb 2012, 19:52   #10 (permalink)
 
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And then there is the issue of expats working for the other airlines if the KFA (Indian) pilots are out of a job.
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Old 21st Feb 2012, 01:38   #11 (permalink)
 
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Flankerpilot "Interesting fact. I know of one KFA f/o on the A-320 who recently got hired onto Spicejet as a Q400 training captain.Now that is a change of scenery !"

Yeah and very wrong!

So the guy is, a new Commander (What about Command course) New on type.. and he is going to be training people?

To be honest, I think the is bull... Even the DGCA have minimums before someone is able to be a trainer.. Your friend can not even legally give assisted takeoffs and landings.
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Old 21st Feb 2012, 04:17   #12 (permalink)
 
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Capacity and prices

I don't think the government is offering any bailout and any package they offer cannot be only to KF. The losses of most airlines that declare their results are massive and not only restricted to KF. Indigo is not obligated to declare it's results so any information on them is speculative.

The game has become about cash flow and not profitability. Jet has a $1 billion loss more than KF but is maintaining cash flow, but for how long can one spin the web.

With KF being disrupted the fares are spiraling upwards across the board. It is in the governments best interest to relook at ATF taxation which in some states is over 35% and some landing fees and charges to reduce operating costs across the board. In addition they need to ensure that bottom predatory pricing is controlled for the next 3 years to avoid this situation that IMHO was the brain child of the gopi man on weed and is the root cause of the issue.

KF has spiraled faster than the others because he blew his wad on Deccan instead of letting him crash and burn (not literally) and his fickle mind of low cost/fine dine/low cost/fine dine cattle class / presidential suite.

To top it all his son with 50 days of experience is actually a pointless exercise in dynasty power.

It is true his ego is the only thing keeping it afloat, but even the fat man will need to bite humble pie. He should go in for a restructuring exercise that includes professionals only, stick his nose out and involve all stake holders by which I mean, employees, banks, equipment manufacturers and the airports.

Most importantly stick to one concept and do not change it. I have no idea if I am going to be flying third, second or first class or maybe even standing up at this stage with his concept of First, Regular or Red!!!!!
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Old 21st Feb 2012, 04:55   #13 (permalink)
 
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RIP KF..

Sympathies with all employees..
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Old 21st Feb 2012, 05:22   #14 (permalink)
 
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@PT6A my apologies I meant to say "transition" captain instead of "training". Huge difference there.
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Old 21st Feb 2012, 05:58   #15 (permalink)
 
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kingfisher to spicejet

guys as far as spicejet and Q400 is concerned all the Indian captains are DEC's most of them directly from the IAF. Do a little research on the Deputy Chief Pilot for the Q 400.
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Old 21st Feb 2012, 08:02   #16 (permalink)
 
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@ thegrapevine

Not clear as to what you are implying about the pilot in question.

He is an ex air force pilot with more than 10 yrs commercial flying experience and has a proven track record as one of the best ground school instructors for DGCA exams.

Are you doubting his competence?

His interpersonal skills are another matter entirely but I do not believe he lacks expertise or knowledge

I would also like to know what you have against Ex IAF pilots joining the airlines.
They have thousands of hrs of experience flying jets and high performance ones at that. they join the airlines with ATPL in hand and so can be groomed for command much faster than freshers. Does their past experience and maturity not qualify them as transition captains?
It would take a fresh CPL DEC at least 2 years to build the necessary hours for ATPL issuance, not to mention the skill required for command, which sometimes takes longer.
In addition, there are many first officers in all the airlines who are unable to clear the atpl exams even though they have the necessary hours. I would rather have the IAF pilots as commanders and transition captains. at least they have the experience and have cleared the necessary papers to get their ATPL.

By the way, this is not just the case here but all over the world, you are welcome to prove me wrong if you can find facts that say otherwise.
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Old 21st Feb 2012, 09:18   #17 (permalink)
 
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^^Go ask the ex IAF pilot you are so blindly defending what was the reason for his early retirement.
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Old 21st Feb 2012, 09:53   #18 (permalink)
 
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I have nothing against any of the IAF pilots. I dont know what made you believe so.

Talking about the particular individual, i am not competent enough to judge his skills and knowledge, but i do believe that his temperament might hamper the CRM, but than again its just my personal opinion. I have seen many chief pilots and FID's who are very friendly and cool headed but still hold their authority and respect.

PS: I hold utmost respect for all the IAF pilots and my fav Captain is an Ex-IAF guy! so cheers!
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Old 21st Feb 2012, 12:28   #19 (permalink)
 
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I happen to know him personally and I am not defending him blindly.

I agree about his temprament, mentioned it in my post but then I have not worked with him so its not fair for me to comment on him as a professional which is what you are doing. (liedetector and Grapevine).

I dont know how and when he wronged you but please refrain from using this forum for personal attacks.

As for his IAF tenure, there are always two sides to the story and I happen to know his side but you can ask him in person for his explanation.

Cheers and all the best in your flying careers.
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Old 21st Feb 2012, 12:54   #20 (permalink)
 
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Is that what you were asked to memorise in his classes?

Just calling a spade a spade, and there are no two sides to the verdict announced in a court of inquiry held in the defense forces.

His might and pomp only work in front of his 20year old cpl holder students, he has been put in his place many times by the seniors in aviation and this will continue to happen.

He is exactly what is wrong with aviation and why it is infamous and comes in the wrong section of the news. If Blind ego and false sense of superiority are ok in your books then by all means stick to that, but don't come out and blabber about things you do not know or understand.

Just my 2 cents.
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