i was wondering if anyone here knows details of indonesian DGCA regulation regarding flight operation over water while carrying pax or ferry flight. i m looking for info regarding specifically single engine turbo props like C208. thanks
It's in the CASR, Part 135. Specifically, part 135.351
135.351 Survival Equipment for Overwater Operations
(a) Except for the purpose of take off and landing, no air carrier shall operate any single engine aeroplane carrying passengers, over water beyond gliding distance from shore unless,
1. the aeroplane is of a type or configuration designed to take off or land on the water and is not operated more than 50 nautical miles from shore, and
2. each occupant on board that aircraft is provided, a life preserver or approved floatation device.
Basically cannot operate an aircraft with a seating capacity of 10 or more seats in any overwater operation without a life preserver or floatation device.
It essentially means if you fly over rivers and/or lake you need life jackets. Paragraph B allows Director to approve operation without use of floatation devices.
However, in many parts of Indonesia rivers are more than likely your best ditching option. I think back to Garuda 421 which ditched in the Bengawan Solo River.
thanks for the reply guys. the reason i posted this question here is because of an argument with another pilot about indonesian over water operation rule. the C208 i fly has life jacket for each pax and also 10 pax capacity life raft on board all the time.
having turbo prob engine, two independent garmin nav aids and some other emergency devices like the ELT, my knowledge was its possible to operate the plane across the islands without the need to circumnavigate. usually these over water flights should not b more than two hrs but my friend argued that unless its ferry flight, its prohibited to carry pax for this long flight time over water. since i m an expat, i was hesitant to counter his argument. anyways, i think my previous thought is right and he must b making a buzz about nothing.
A Caravan operating over-water on Part 135 cannot go past gliding range from land. It doesn't matter if there is a life raft on board. This is essentially just an 'extra' nice to have safety feature. The overriding rule is still that glide range has to be maintained.
Actually I concur with the previous poster, the only regulation that deals with single engine over water for the Indonesian part 135 CASR is:
135.351 Survival Equipment for Overwater Operations
(a) Except for the purpose of take off and landing, no air carrier shall operate any single engine aeroplane carrying passengers, over water beyond gliding distance from shore unless,
(1) The aeroplane is of a type or configuration designed to take off or land on the water and is not operated more than 50 nautical miles from shore, and
(2)Each occupant on board that aircraft is provided, a life preserver or approved floatation device
As you can see with the AND at the end of the first paragraph, you can only fly outside of gliding range if you have floats on your airplane and can land on the water.
Last edited by PlanetEarth; 8th Feb 2012 at 11:15.
From what I understand if you operate with less than 10 seats you don't need to carry flotation devices for overwater-operations within gliding range, but it doesn't change the within gliding distance rule. Ref this one: 135.355 Emergency Flotation Device
(a) Except as provided in Paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate an aeroplane that has a passenger configuration of 10 or more seats used in commuter operations in any overwater operation after December 31, 2000 unless:
(1) it is equipped with a life preserver or an approved flotation device for each occupant, and
(2) such device is within easy reach of each seated occupant and must be readily removable from the aeroplane
edit: I know I'm reiterating a bit here
Last edited by PlanetEarth; 9th Feb 2012 at 00:04.
Yeah it doesn't matter how many seats, if it is Part 135 and Single Engine then it has to maintain glide range. That even goes for no seats in a cargo configuration.
how about part 91 operation ? i tried to refer from the internet but its still ambiguous for me regarding the over water operation not to mention to gray area that lies between part 91 vs part 135 operations. thanks
Part 91 is another creature, but if you do scheduled or charter passenger service etc, or for the most part take on work from a 3rd party and make money off it, you're operating under part 135. Part 91 is usually used with such operations as ferry flights or flight training. Only exceptions is fractional ownership and those kinds of operations
91.509 Survival Equipment for Overwater Operations
(a) No person may takeoff an airplane for a flight over water more than 50 nautical miles from the nearest shore unless that airplane is equipped with a life preserver or an approved flotation means for each occupant of the airplane.
(b) No person may takeoff an airplane for a flight over water more than 30 minutes flying time or 100 nautical miles from the nearest shore unless it has on board the following survival equipment:
(1) A life preserver, equipped with an approved survivor locator light, for each occupant of the airplane.
(2) Enough life rafts (each equipped with an approved survival locator light) of a rated capacity and buoyancy to accommodate the occupants of the airplane.
(3) At least one pyrotechnic signaling device for each life raft.
(4) One self-buoyant, water resistant, portable emergency radio signaling device that is capable of transmission on the appropriate emergency frequency or frequencies and not dependent upon the airplane power supply.
(5) A lifeline stored in accordance with Section 25.1411(g) of the CASRs.
Nothing particular there about glide range though.
However, if you are operating under Part 135 you can't just decide "this will be a Part 91 flight". You are either on a Part 135 AOC or you are not and all operations must therefore be conducted in line with the CASR 135 and any applicable Operations Specifications.
Nothing particular there about glide range though.
That's because 91.509 comes under Subpart F which refers to Large and Turbine Powered Multiengine Airplanes. And if you read the first section, 91.501 Applicability it says "The operating rules in this subpart do not apply to airplanes when they are required to be operated under Parts 121, 129 and 135, of the CASRs".
since i m an expat, i was hesitant to counter his argument. anyways, i think my previous thought is right and he must b making a buzz about nothing.
