Indian DGCA Licence

[mercy 320]

Fellow pilots in India

I am looking for answers from pilot community in India for the following questions.

I have recently applied for the Indian DGCA licence based on my Foreign Licence.I passed the conversion exam Reg and composite,did my Indian Class 1 medical and all the requirements according to the DGCA CAR for the Licence conversion.

I have been told today by the DGCA that I cant get the Indian licence because the Indian licence is only issued for Indian nationals who has an Indian passport.I can only apply under FATA and the new rules on FATA from month of December 2010.

I was born in India and have an OCI card and I allways thought that it would be enough for Indian licence.

I was today informed by DGCA that having OCI does not mean that you will be considered as an Indian citizen. Its a big misunderstanding in the aviation industry and DGCA is making it very clear to applicants.

I have heard from people that many have got lndian DGCA licences in the past through contacts .even though they dont have an Indian passport.

I appreciate and welcome any information to this matter

[IndAir967]

I ve known OCI s who ve had Indian License for sure.

"Its about where u look.. how u look.. at what u look and at whom u look "

Quote Courtesy:A.Raja (Former Telecommunication Minister, Govt. of India)

[Challenger05]

http://www.mha.nic.in/pdfs/oci-chart.pdf

OCI status as per the Ministry of Home Affairs.

I too know of people who have OCI cards who have previously held DGCA licenses.

Technically if you have OCI I assume you also have Dual nationality status, then you should be having a Indian Passport and you need to use that to get your license, thats what others I know did.

The interpretation at DGCA is correct YOU DO NEED TO HAVE AN INDIAN PASSPORT to be issued a Indian CPL/ATPL or else get a FATA License.

If you have an OCI card and your country allows DUAL nationality apply for a Indian passport; if you already dont have one and then reapply at DGCA.

OR ELSE refer to the post above!!! Coz it sure does happen in incredible India.

[Vertical Freedom]

Hmmm I have even heard of PIO card holders getting their CPL? So where can you find this correct info? Cheers VF

[Jazbag]

If they allowed you to appear for the exams then there should be no probs on issuing a license.

simple answer ask for a RTI/ or go to court!

OCI= Overseas Citizen of India which is equivalent to NRI who has an Indian Passport but stays abroad

[mercy 320]

Indair,Challenger,VF,Jazbag

Hi guys thanks for your input.

I was able to write the exams because I had a computer number issued in 1991.So when I applied for the exams I did not have any issue.

I have been working in commercial aviation for the past 14 years.Now that the airlines in India have made it a norm to have Indian licence for First officers to work.

I work on FATA with an Indian company.Now the company have told they wont keep anyone on FATA so I have to have the Indian licence.
so I did went and passed all the exams and Indian medical.now with all the paperwork as per the DGCA conversion I have applied for Indian Licence.

Now the problem is that i dont have an Indian passport But I have an OCI.
According to DGCA OCI is not like an Indian passport and I also had to agree to that when i spoke to the DGCA because

OCI = overseas Citizen of India .

DGCA has blindly said that they are happy to issue me a licence But Not the Indian ALTP/CPL only FATA Because according to them I am a foreigner even though I was born in India and also hold an OCI I still dont have an Indian Passport.

Now to get an Indian Passport for an OCI it takes 5 years after the issue of OCI out of that 5 years you have to be in India for 1 year and the other formalities as per the application process that means 2014.

Now by the time the passed papers all would have expired and also the medical.

I know many of you have heard or know people who have done it they must have had heavy contact at higher level.

I am an ordinary citizen just coming from the street so dont have anyone up at higher levels.Th only thing I have is a clear record and have passed all the exams studying hard.

I have spend a lot of money to go back and get flying done in the C172,PA34,A320 and at least 9000US$.
Only to be told by the DGCA that sorry Indian Licence cant be issued.

If anyone could PM me with the contact of guys who have done it would be very helpful.

All welcome to chip in for ideas

[niksmathew24]

@ challenger

Technically if you have OCI I assume you also have Dual nationality status, then you should be having a Indian Passport

Small correction..
Indian Govt. till date has not approved dual nationality. ie; A person cannot hold a foreign passport along with an Indian one. He/she will have to give up their Indian passport if they are accepting a foreign citizenship.

@ jaz
OCI ≠ NRI

Here is what I've found out about OCI and PIO
The Government of India has decided to grant Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI), which most people mistakenly refer to as 'dual citizenship.' Persons of Indian Origin (PIO) of certain categories who migrated from India and acquired citizenship of a foreign country, other than Pakistan and Bangladesh, are eligible to be granted an OCI as long as their home countries allow dual citizenship in some form or the other under their local laws.

If you get an OCI, it is NOT the same as being a regular Indian citizen:

• You do not get an Indian passport. There is no such thing as an OCI passport.
• You have no voting rights.
• You cannot be a candidate for Lok Sabha/Rajya Sabha/Legislative Assembly/Council or a member of the House of the People or of the Council of States.
• You cannot hold constitutional posts such as President, Vice President, Judge of Supreme Court/High Court, etc.
• You cannot normally hold employment in the Government of India.
• Can not acquire agricultural or plantation properties in India. However, such a person can inherit such properties.

As an OCI, you will get the following benefits:

• Multiple entry, multi-purpose life long visa to visit India;
• Exemption from reporting to police authorities for any length of stay in India; and
• Parity with NRIs in financial, economic and educational fields, except in the acquisition of agricultural or plantation properties.
• Employment:
  • Employment allowed in all areas except mountaineering, missionary and research work and other work requiring PAP/RAP. (PAP = Protected Area Permit, RAP = Restricted Area Permit).
  • Employment allowed in private sector.
  • Professional practice (doctor, dentist, nurse, pharmacist, chartered accountant, architect, advocate etc.) is allowed only as per provision contained in relevant Acts. Currently, MCI and DCI Acts do not allow foreign nationals to practice in India. The other Acts prescribes reciprocal facility.
    
    OCI holders do not need to get an employment visa and are not required to register with FRRO for seeking employment.

In case the OCI holder came to India to work for a certain employer and later decides to leave the job and/or decides to change the employer, he/she does not have to leave India.

• Parity with non-resident Indian in respect of:
  • Entry fees to be charged for visiting the national monuments, historical sites and museums in India;
  • Pursuing the professions of doctors, dentists, nurses and pharmacists, advocates, architects and chartered accountants.
  • Appear for the All India Pre-Medical Test or such other tests to make them eligible for admission in pursuance of the provisions contained in the relevant acts.

Any future benefits extended to OCIs will be notified by the Ministry of Overseas Indian Affairs (MOIA) under section 7B(1) of the Citizenship Act, 1955.

A person registered as an OCI is eligible to apply by the Ministry of Citizenship under section 5(1)(g) of the Citizenship Act, 1955, if they are registered as an OCI for five years and have been residing in India for one of the five years before making the application. However, such a person would have to renounce their foreign citizenship.

It is anticipated that a large number of Indian Diaspora will benefit by this scheme for hassle-free travel to their motherland. They will bring economic value and benefits to the Indian economy and contribute to the development process.

PIO vs. OCI
Compared to PIO card, OCI offers the following benefits:

• OCI is entitled to life long visa-free travel to India whereas for the PIO cardholder, it is limited to 15 years.
• OCI is exempted from registration with Indian Police authorities for any length of stay in India. A PIO cardholder is required to register with local Police authorities for any stay exceeding 180 days in India on any single visit.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Challenger05]

@ VF:
The DGCA requirements specifically ask for an indian passport when submitting papers to issue license. I will look up the doc that deals with this specific clause.

@ Nik:
I might be wrong.. no guarantees but I do remember a friend of mine who is a British national mentioning he will be getting his Indian passport a few years back along with his Uk passport since in 200/2004 Indian govt passed a bill to allow "Indians origin persons" to have dual nationality

Qoute:
At last, nearly one year after the Indian Parliament passed the Dual
Nationality law, there is good news for Indians in America, much of
Europe and other places - the Indian Dual Citizenship (Dual
Nationality) regulations from the Citizenship (Amendment) Act 2003 are
now effective.

The Ministry of Home Affairs confirms this if you contact them in New
Delhi. They told a desi friend of mine that the first date on which
applications are accepted was September 20 2004.

Unqoute

this being said, I might be wrong. never know with the rules central govt comes up with as a kneejerk reaction...

@mercy320:

A long shot in the dark, have you tried meeting the DGCA during the open house?? the DG is a fair guy if you can get a meeting with him, they might be able to help you...

[shon7]

@mercy 320 -- why don't you tell your company what is happening and try and get them involved. Might expedite the process.

[mercy 320]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the input.
The information I have directly came form the DG himself.He is a very nice fair person.He has told me that there is no provision in the current CAR where he can issue me an Indian Licence.

These were his words Quote " To be issued an Indian Licence you should have an Indian Passport.Indian Licence is issued for Indian Nationals only.The only Licence we can issue is FATA which we issue for foreign nationals.Also there has been new rule changes on FATA few days back"

He said DGCA is aware about some may has slipped through the net but they will be dealth with in due course.

So this is coming from the DG himself and I dont have any other choice.he says that OCI is not an Indian Passport .

I agree with many of the comments from Nikmathew I believe you are correct. As of this day there is no Dual Citizenship.When you get a citizenship of another country you have to surrender the Indian passport.

I also spoke to my company they say sorry they cant do much .so thats pretty much to it.

thanks for all your comments

safe flying to all

[shon7]

So can you still work on the FATA or not?

[picollo]

I just skimmed through the DGCA website and can anyone point out the exact regulation where it says that an Indian passport is required or Indian nationality is required for the issue of an Indian license?

It is kind of crazy requirement considering that quite a few Indian nationals go abroad to get their licenses!

[spedfast]

This is quite interesting. I myself know a few pilots of Indian origin, who definitely hold foreign passports and have been issued with Indian licenses.
Mercy 320, why dont you have the DGCA give you this reason in writing.
If memory serves me right, I do not recall remembering nationality to be a restriction for issuing Indian Licenses.
India is a member of the ICAO, and if other ICAO nations issue licenses to Indians, then DGCA must do the same.

Further, I do not see Indian nationality as a requirement for issue of a license in the Indian Aircraft Rules as specified here http://dgca.nic.in/schedules/section-j.pdf
good luck anyways!

[shanx]

From the same link above :

(g) Other Requirements— He shall be in possession of a current Flight Radio Telephone
Operator’s Licence for operation of radio telephone apparatus on board an aircraft issued by the
Director-General.


In order to get an FRTOL, one needs an RTR(A)/(P)/(C) from the WPC (Ministry of IT/Telecom).
Is it possible for a non-Indian national to get that certificate ?
(Im not sure, but applying for an RTR does require a Nationality and Character certificate.)
I see this as the only reason why someone who is not an Indian national can not be issued an Indian pilot license.

[nikaviator]

Shanx has a point, the DG is misinformed regarding OCI so are many people in the Government, please explore it, as even in the education arena reserved for Indian nationals like IIT and medical schools oci and pio's can get in. Don't let him put a glass ceiling over you.

OCI are to be treated in parity with NRI except in certain arenas, and getting a CPL is not one of them.

I heard about a p.i.o holder who sued a medical school and got his kid in. If you don't get it, get a lawyer, sue them if you must. There are clear provision in the MHA, and I read somewhere that PM has eased the rules allowing doctors plus other professionals to convert their licenses and work in India

OCI and PIOare like a green cards, green card holders are allowed to work in the u.s as pilots. You can't work in Nacil, coast guard IAF... but you are allowed to work in private airlines.

I know someone with an OCI who has his CPL license, I don't think he will be phased out anytime soon, he got it by quoting the rules for OCI with the previous DG. BTW the DG won't be here for long, he's getting a promotion as secretary of aviation or something I read it in the news, hope the new guy will be more informed

Good Luck man, don't give up.

[mercy 320]

DGCA

Update.I did call the DG himself and he has made it very clear that DGCA wont be able to issue an Indian licence for me " foreign national " Even though I have an OCI .
He is happy to issue me FATA which is the Licence issued for the foreign nationals who wants to work in India .

Now for the RTR/FRTO issue WPC has not issued the RTR as of yet.They have given a letter of intent saying once the security clearance has come from the Home ministry they will issue RTR and has given an NOC to DGCA.

It has been more than 12 months this running around and still no luck.
Thats why I have called the DG himself. He was very honest and told me that DGCA wont be able to issue the Indian licence for a foreign passport holder.I did also ask him about the others who may have got the Indian licence.He said that is very unlikely to happen.

I can go and visit him at his office and its just going to cost me more in travel and other expenses and he wont be able to do anything apart from he can issue me an FATA licence which is for foreign pilots.

Now from the company point of view ,now that DG has said this I am of no good to them as they wont be able to upgrade me on FATA So today they asked me to look for job somewhere else.

so in short I cant work in India with out an Indian Licence.
many many years ago I had a ambition to become a pilot Like many of you i also took that journey in the early 90s .Spending more than 30 lakhs and no job at the end was the situation confronted after completion in the mid 90s.But somehow that journey took me to 4 continents and flying experience.Finally when the aviation started to develop and I decided to come back to my country where I was born where my grand parents ,great grand parents all have lived and died .

I did not want to jump the queue .So I also went and did what many of my fellow pilots did.Study and pass all the exams , the medical Class1,Also did all the requirements like the 5 years the 300nm,120nm,250nm general flying test day night everything as per the DGCA.

One thing I have not done so far is that BRIBE anyone.

During the growth in India I heard from the Indian President asking the Indians who have gone overseas to come back to india and contribute to the growth of the country.

jai hind

[nikaviator]

Mercy....the guy I know did not bribe, as I said OCI is like a green card. This DG has been in the job for less than 2 years, and he is not that well informed. Know your rights, if I were you I would go to the Ministry of Home Affairs and clear this, what you need is to know your rights, what you are able to do and what you are not. Many OCI's are able to work in professions (private, non-government) that are reserved for Indian nationals only. Have faith, that there are guys out there who can also show you rules that will favour your case. Do it in a non confrontational way, just by the book and quote the rules, get the N.O.C from MHA regarding license conversion.

The DG will be unable to argue with the MHA in the case of your status in India as a "green card" holder. Many guys are still flying with OCI and Indian license without bribing -"Not likely to happen?" Is the DG wearing blinkers?

Keep us updated.

[spedfast]

Dear friend,
Since you have covered almost the complete journey, why do you not submit your papers to DGCA. Let them reject your papers by giving you a reason in writing.

There is no restriction as per the Indian CAR that the license has to be issued to Indians only. The FATA is a Foreign "AIRCREW" temporary authorization, and just that. Air crew only, not foreigners.
There are many Indian Passport holders who are flying VT aircrafts with FATAs issued to them on the basis of their foreign licenses.

The DG may be an honourable man, but on this occassion it seems that he is misinformed.
Good luck!

[Jazbag]

mercy

it seems that there are other forces at work here... please do let me know if there is any place specifically mentioned that an indian passport is necessary for the issue of the indian license.

I have no recollection of the same and this is agreed by all who i have met.

All the best.

[sgosain]

mercy,

Please keep me informed on what happens because I am pursing the same.

thanks