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Old 16th Jun 2008, 15:00   #1 (permalink)
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Air Asia A320 Tailstrike??

air asia a320 had a tailstrike ?
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Old 16th Jun 2008, 17:54   #2 (permalink)
QAR
 
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i heard about that as well...

heard A320 9M-AFX tail strike in KUL on 16th June afternoon and aircraft AOG...

Is this true...can anyone confirm?????

3 g landing, 4g landing,tail strike....what is coming next is anyones guess
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Old 17th Jun 2008, 00:33   #3 (permalink)
 
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I heard it, too. FO's sector. T'was a smooth landing though, but apparently the flare was excessive.
Fly by wire, side stick. The Capt couldn't just immediately take-over the controls.
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Old 17th Jun 2008, 01:58   #4 (permalink)
a345xxx
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i am not questinoning the pilots ability but side stick or not the other pilot is able to take over controls!! thats basic redundancy on any ac. so i do believe your statement is not accurate.
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Old 17th Jun 2008, 02:15   #5 (permalink)
 
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A345...

Its half correct. With side stick flying, the Capt cannot see what imputs the FO is doing to the Aircraft at flare. Therefore, he doesn't know if the inputs are excessive or not... At flare, there is a split second moment to react if the FO is not flaring properly for the situation. If the capt reacts too fast, and forgets to hold the FO disconect pushbutton, or at least doesnt hold it in... then the commands are added. In effect adding the Capts and the FO's together, so its a bit dangerous for a capt to take control right at flare. Not to mention, the Capts sidestick when not being used is in neutral, and the FO's who is flying may be full back or somewhere else. IF the capt hits the disconnect at neutral, the aircraft will sense a command of neutral and go to neutral from where the FO's command was. If your reacting to a downdraft, then your gonna have an even harder G landing than the FO had. Again I say, the capt has no measure of knowing where the FO's input is at. To take control at flare, ideally the capt would first have to equal the FO input, then press the disconnect, then react to the situation. By that time the thrust reversers are out and its too late.

In a boeing, the Capt can see whats happening to the yolk and thereby immediatly see what the FO is doing. And all he needs to do is "help" the FO through the situation by checking the controls. Simple.

This is why its not reccomended for any pilot in an airbus to take over from the other pilot during the flare, and that occasionally, on an airbus, you get a tailstrike or heavy landing. Incidentally, most of the tailstrikes ive seen/heard lately have been from Capts. Not FO's.

Also, pretty hard to tailstrike a 320. Must be more to the story.

Orange.
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Old 17th Jun 2008, 14:33   #6 (permalink)
 
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Angel Air Asia Tail Strike

wow...i guess they are done with the hard landing phase of the testing.its true that they had a tail strike.
as a t.r.i on the 320 its hard for the pilots to see what the other is doing...but that is no reason for the capt not to have SA.
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Old 17th Jun 2008, 19:33   #7 (permalink)
 
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2 months training

I guess that is the result of short training, it is okay for the experienced pilots but I think they shouldn't do that for the new comers. They are still lack of it, but with the company that uses A320 as their entry they should really tighten up on the training department.

Not only one but I guess more than 2 of my colleagues are suffered from the hard landing incidents, these are avoidable if only they didn't hesitate to over ride. One thing for sure you guys out there don't have the obligation to train the guys next you!!! Let the instructors do it, this is not a game you are playing, peoples lives and your reputation are at stake.

God Speed
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Old 18th Jun 2008, 01:33   #8 (permalink)
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air force outfit in airline uniform...why read bout it in PPRuNe??...all info and findings kept very secretive..thank god truth prevails
another incident swept under the carpet..any yes 2 weeks time capt z will be out for another record...just had another squadren from subang frieght company..the ironic thing is most of the incidents in air asia is caused by either instructors, ex-DCA and training instructors... aren`t they suppose to be better.. in terms of flying skills and decision making ..???
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Old 18th Jun 2008, 03:14   #9 (permalink)
a345xxx
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As much as there a lot of negative reports about the standard of AK pilots i don't believe its fair. I do believe every airline has its fair share of tail strikes and hard landings. These incidents are not exclusive to AK only.
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Old 18th Jun 2008, 08:38   #10 (permalink)
 
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Yes, agreed. Other airlines would have had the same incidents/accidents. Worked for 3 companies already and yes, all have had a fair share, some very lucky ones, escaped without loss of lives. By the way, who ever thinks that a Captain is definitely BETTER than a F/O, Instructors are BETTER than line Captains, Examiners are BETTER than Instructors... please think again. That is not always the case. Some are in training department by MERIT but most are by CABLES. Well, whatever it is, we should use this forum for constructive dialogues and learn from each other. Be it from another airline because we are professionals and are responsible for passenger/crew lives. Fly safe!
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Old 18th Jun 2008, 11:18   #11 (permalink)
 
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Big cables in AK and elsewhere too !!

"Some are in training department by MERIT but most are by CABLES."
I can vouch that is the case in my previous company. *.* Boleh
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Old 18th Jun 2008, 11:39   #12 (permalink)
 
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If dual input is made from both sidesticks "the inputs are algebrically summed and can be unpredictable."

Perhaps it would make sense to have both sidesticks move in response to control inputs so the captain could feel what the f/o was doing, after all the rudder pedals are interconnected.
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Old 21st Jun 2008, 03:53   #13 (permalink)
 
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It is indeed an unfortunate event for AK.However,the comment I read so far is even more heartening! So many people had their views on control column,side stick blah blah blah....What the hell?

Let me ask you, be it side stick or control column,how the hell you gauge the amount of input?Looking down at the side stick during landing flare? Or judging the space between the controls and your belly? What the hell? Every landing requires different amount of input base on prevailing environmental conditions and the a/c loading,trim setting,config...etc all come into play.So,what can you use to gauge to avoid a tail strike?

Go flip your training manual to find that tail strike pitch angle and memorised it by hard and never to exceed that!! Stop pointing the fingers at capt,fo or the management.Be a bloody professional pilot!!You guys make me sick!
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Old 21st Jun 2008, 13:19   #14 (permalink)
 
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a*s strike

this article was release to its pilots over the weekend.

Dear ladies and gentlemen



Recently one of our aircraft (9M A**) had experienced a tail strike upon
landing at KLIA. Generally these are the details of the flight.


Both Captain and First Officer have less than 600 hours on type but are well
experienced with the company operations, coming from their B737 background.
They were both performing 4 sectors in the afternoon comprising of an
international and domestic destination. On the last landing at KUL, the
weather was fine and the PIC was the PF. With consideration of the weather
and fuel conservation, he elected to do a CONF 3 landing since it was an
approach for Rwy 14L with the option of exiting the runway via intersection
A10 available. A normal landing was conducted with that configuration and no
abnormalities were experienced until touchdown. During the landing roll, an
inadvertent pitch up was experienced which lead to a tail strike. The
aircraft is now grounded and will definitely be out of service for at least
2 weeks. An investigation is ongoing and the findings and recommendations
will be released for everyone's benefit upon completion.



As a reminder and further education for every one of us, attached is a
presentation from Airbus on avoiding such an incident. We now have two
problems arising from landings at KUL - HARD LANDING and TAILSTRIKE which as
a result is shining the wrong spotlight on us as PILOTS. Please take note of
both matters and ensure that each landing is a safe landing without any
incident.
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Old 23rd Jun 2008, 15:42   #15 (permalink)
 
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Rumour has it that the "hard Landing" a/c is a writeoff. Apparently about 6Gs! Dont fly AA is you have any sense - cowboy outfit and nothing less.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 03:30   #16 (permalink)
 
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Ouch, that's a bit harsh.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 04:01   #17 (permalink)
 
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Hehehe

Let the real man fly these planes..enough said.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 14:44   #18 (permalink)
 
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name called "pprune"

6G ?? must be a pilots nightmare....find it hard to believe ??
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 16:35   #19 (permalink)
 
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"Rumour has it that the "hard Landing" a/c is a writeoff. Apparently about 6Gs! Dont fly AA is you have any sense - cowboy outfit and nothing less."


if everybody thinks the same way you do then we'd all be out of jobs.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 21:13   #20 (permalink)
 
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"let the real man fly..."

humm.. i thought human factor manual mentioned something about "real men" being the problem in most accidents?

Bottom line is, big or small, we all screw up. Some recoverable and some hits the fence. Give those guys a break.
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