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Vietnam Airlines (info please)

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Vietnam Airlines (info please)

Old 1st Sep 2014, 13:02
  #981 (permalink)  
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VNA

Quite an observer, Luke... LOL! Indeed, back in 2007 I was looking for some adventure, now I'm searching for good income + a decent place to live in + a relative stable job... and it seems that VNA has that...

cheers ;-)
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Old 1st Sep 2014, 14:51
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Hey Luke , please check your pm's.


Many thanks
4g's
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 02:19
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haha you and a million others mate, I should start my own agency, I think Akbar al Baker and Tim Clark would have a meltdown if they saw the contents of my inbox right now
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 04:26
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peze, not for or against!

Luke gave a very balanced view of things.
If you read again, whilst he gave it a solid 7.
I reiterate the A321 fleet is a world away from the WB fleet
Lifestyle wise. Rents in Hanoi where you would be based are not falling. I am neutral in terms of join or not. Some guys love it, some hate it and some tolerate it because its the best they can do. Whilst Luke gave a superb overview, I was just trying to dispel the notion that Vietnam was super cheap, cheaper than Dubai yes, but if your a family, no schooling, no housing, etc, no medical insurance seems to be the trend of late (mostly),
So there are a lot of additional costs, as Luke said a WB FO earns the same as a 321 Capt , a pay increase (also realistically achievable O/T) particularly on the 321, a revamped scheduling system and personnel, and implementation of proper staff travel benefits (Skyteam etc).
Well now that would be "come on in the waters warm"
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 04:41
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Tks , Luke for taking the time., Your're a gent .Had to laugh , but not surprised at the interest you have received.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 05:19
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Dihedral…

Thanks also for your input as well!

It seems there certainly is an interest among us here for VN. I've read other posts that that VN wants to grow quite significantly over the years ahead which certainly bodes well for those of us who are interested.

One additional question I have…

How has the Agency (Rishworth) been with things like being upfront with those of you who are there, supporting you if issues arise? And what about contact-ability to the Rishworth rep if you need to have some questions answered? And finally, since I've never worked for an agency before, what exactly is the role of Rishworth once a pilot is there in training or on the line?

Thanks for the input!

Kap
 
Old 2nd Sep 2014, 05:55
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^^^ reiterate what dihedral said. again. I'm not even HAN based so I take no responsibility for anyone's disappointment or claim to being some kind of guru about VNA.

Also on further reflection ... I think I was talking as much about the country as the job, in my previous post when I was scoring it 7 out of 10. The job's only a small part of the picture.

- If you're the kind of captain who gets driven crazy by nothing less than operational and SOP perfection, don't come here.
- If you're aspiring management, or have a captain-is-god complex, don't come here.
- If your idea of fun is sitting by the fireplace drinking port, or polishing the Bentley on your immaculately manicured driveway of your country house, don't come here.
- If you can't handle maximum hours and chaotic rostering, don't come here.

- If you're the kind of guy who goes to work, gets on with everyone, does the job with minimum fuss, goes home and then likes to go out and spend their very large salary partying in a cheap, filthy, fascinating asian mega city, then you'll like it here.
- If you're a divorced horny old captain looking for a cute young thing to take care of you in your retirement, then you'll like it here.
- If you want a base to explore asia and do stuff like hop off to thailand for the weekend for some diving or cambodia for jungle exploring or something, then you'll like it here.

I'm sure you all get the picture. Take the job for what it is and use it as a platform to go have some fun in your life. This place isn't everyone's cup of tea but if you approach it with the right attitude, it's as fun as a barrel of monkeys
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 07:55
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Luke hits the target

Luke's pretty much got the bases covered.
Without trying to offend, if your looking for Swiss Precision, German Engineering or Zero MELs....
I have looked at Korean Air planes, that are not new but seem immaculate. Unfortunately looking at our 777s doesn't leave you feeling warm and fuzzy..
Luke dealt with the infrastructural issues before, Vietjet and even Jetstar are all on fairly aggressive expansion drives, alongside the planned doubling of the WB fleet size at VN. (Delays, frustration, schedule changes, but that's everywhere I guess)
After Indonesia, Vietnam, I think is the next largest growing aviation market in the world, so I suspect, for a good few years to come, there will be opportunities within the Commercial Aviation Market, along with the Private Jet Market (very soon), we have expats now flying Grand Caravans on Floats between tourists spots.
Anybody looking to come here must be flexible, as that is how the Vietnamese treat all things- Red light! No worries, I'll just mount the sidewalk (pedestrians be damned) and bypass that silly thing whilst going in the opposite direction to the flow of traffic...
China offers some very good money, because the need is so great and their CAAC seem to hinder rather than facilitate expat hiring..
I would say to guys, if your not desperate for a job right now!!
Hold off, there is a pilot crisis looming (Vietjet is already poaching pilots, and VN have responded with more pay and vacation for local pilots) the first offering from VN in response to a new expat contract has been met, with a very cool reception (Spring air et al being beneficiaries) especially on the 321.
Already the manning on the 321 is at critical levels, it won't take much to get to the point that flights are canceled. Then, we will see a reasonable contract, maybe even a signing bonus for the the newcomers..
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 20:02
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Does Rishworth provide medical insurance to family members?

Last edited by Jimmy The Big Greek; 2nd Sep 2014 at 20:16.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 20:31
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Interesting points of view, Dihedral... thanks! What I do perceive in both cases is that none of you is saying, "stay away", something commonly read in Chinese forums. So, after all, it does seem like a good choice... Here goes another one, how much longer do you think VNA will be in need of expats?
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 22:42
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Fascinating stuff, Luke & Dihedral.

Thank you.

If it isn't too difficult a question to answer, what would you consider to be a reasonable (but not over the top) budget for monthly living expenses?

Thanks again.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 23:00
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What about recent advertising ATR FO? Anybody heard something?
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 05:07
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Impossible to say

That's to broad a question in my opinion.
Are you single, single & commuting, family, family but commuting.
Where are you from, what are you accustomed to, what can spouse tolerate.
You can rent from a room from $400 to a Villa for $5000 plus
snap.com.vn (no affliation) that's HCM, Hanoi same or more.
Are you going live dangerously ride a motorbike,
or taxi it or rent a car/driver or even buy a car (it can all be done)
Kids: private school $€£¥!!
Spouse boredom begats shopping£€
Local girlfriend(s) could have beer to Dom Perignon tastes, is that additional to spouse or not!!
Are you going to eat local or at chillsaigon.com
Pilots seem to live the full spectrum. Some very flash/bling some a very modest more local style
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 07:19
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HOUSING:
I live in Phu My Hung, about 40 min drive to the airport. With taxi 240000 VND aprox 10$. An apartments costs around 500-700$ for 2 bed room and 1000-1500$ for penthouse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq15iIO2b-

TRANSPORTATION:
I go to work by scooter. Is not so bad as people say (actually I love driving my scooter). Just be careful and don't drive to fast. Its very easy to get a license for scooter. No need for exams or tests. Let me know if you need contact details.

INTERNET: I pay 30$ for ADSL 3MBs

ELECTRICITY: Aprox 100$ per month (3 A/C running)

CABLE TV: 6$ per month

HOSPITAL: Vey good medical care in Vietnam (Better then in Europe), but it will cost you dearly if you are not insured. If you come to Vietnam its very important to have a good medical insurance. Best hospitals are Hanh Phuc Hospital (Singaporean) and FV Hospital.

QUALITY OF LIFE: Compared to Europe, I consider the quality of life as excellent for expats compared to Europe. If you have a wife she might find it a bit difficult in the beginning to find friends but a very good way for her to make new friends is ILV. Its a club for expat wifes in Saigon.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 08:29
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What about recent advertising ATR FO? Anybody heard something?
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 09:10
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Watch the Trend

For persons interested in Vietnam in general!
Watch the trend....
In China, Spring Air (being private and profit driven) was first to revamp their contract, you can earn $18.8K net on a 6/3 contract. West Air, Lucky, Beijing Capital, Hainan and China Southern all followed suit.
Air Arabia today's announces new commuting contracts in ME, how long before nameless, EK and QR are forced to do the same?
Korean Air has been advertising for the last 7 years (you would think it's the worlds largest airline) Asiana advertising as well.
A bunch of carriers in Japan advertising, pretty basic, all commuting, but nobody is going, hear JCAB is reviewing the 6 months of training to something more realistic.
Vietjet, Jetstar and VNA all offer a pretty basic contract at 6/2 10.8K (320/321), resorting to poaching local pilots, as expats not responding well in almost 2015 to what was on offer in 2007. (Despite central bankers fear of deflation, I have seen some pretty big inflationary advances in prices Globally in those 7-8 years).
Sorry Peze, in the last 6 months I haven't seen nearly the complaints out of China, that I used to, I think they are waking up to the requirement to treat expats decently (are there still complaints, sure, but Beijing's Global plans call for a robust Aviation Market, so it will improve).
Vietnam operates on looking at today.. Today we haven't parked any planes, but.. (36 widebodies plus more 321 and ATR @ VN), 60 firm, options for 32 @ Vietjet, Jetstar growing from modest 5 to 18 a/c. So there is a lot of demand and relatively little interest...
To put this in perspective, VN has a population 3 times the size of Canada but all 3 airlines in Vietnam don't add to the size of West Jet, much less Air Canada (fleet numbers).
So hold off, something better (contract wise) will have to be offered.
They won't let Gulf carriers and Air Asia/X steal their home market...
Someone asked how long will they hire expats, my response how long has Saudi Air been hiring expats??
Anyway vacation finished back to the grind. Talk again in 6 weeks..

Last edited by Dihedral1; 4th Sep 2014 at 09:21.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 10:31
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Thanks all for those useful replies.

I am married with older kids and would intend to semi-commute, i.e. maintain a home in the UK and return a few times a year but also get involved in a life in SE Asia. My wife would do the same. We do not have massively expensive tastes but I would like a clean spacious apartment/ house in which to retreat from the hustle and bustle of the city.

Now you may think I am a fool, and please do say so if you think it, but I am currently a relatively senior BA shorthaul Captain on a full time contract. BA is going hell for leather down the low cost road and is ripping up its agreements with its pilots. BA, because of their extensive network are able to work their flight crew extremely hard and many of us are bouncing off legal limits with EASA FTLs just round the corner. Nightstops aplenty but mostly just 13 hours off before another 12 hour duty. All this in an atmosphere of weariness and extreme low morale.

I have another 6 years to go before I hang up my hat for good and I would like to finish by enjoying my flying again. At present the VN contract falls short of enticing but if they were to compete with the pay in China, it could be tempting. My question is; is it worth considering leaving a stable but unpleasant employer to join one that may be much the same. What is VN like to work for, management and colleagues alike? What does a "normal" roster look like? How flexible are the scheduling staff? How many sectors per day and nightstops per month? Are the sim checks chop or train? How many ADDs are carried and is the maintenance a worry? Answers to all those sorts of questions would be gratefully received.

I'd appreciate your thoughts, guys.

Thanks

Last edited by never_home; 4th Sep 2014 at 10:37. Reason: Thought of another question to plague you with!
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 12:21
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For those of you contracting there, what is the current feeling with Rishworth? Are they looking after you? Being UkI based, I've been looking at the Parc contract which seems to include quite a few benefits, although I would like to seem full salary in the first year.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 13:06
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never_home I could answer all those questions but I'd rather just say "you're a fool". Do NOT leave a senior position in BA for the A321 fleet here.

NG708 the whole "which agency" thing is pretty over rated - except DPI who suck, because they pay their pilots a few hundred bucks less. PARC and Rishworth are very similar, pay the same, both offer medical and support services and both have good guys here on the ground to help their pilots out. In practice these days, we all crash each other's agency dinners and drink each other's beers and share each other's gossip and the Rishworth guy helps out the PARC pilots and vice versa.

alloverthesky87 - there's no expat FO's on the ATR fleet any more, and no plans to resume recruitment I don't think. If I was you I'd check out the Bali based job with Garuda
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 13:15
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What about recent advertising ATR FO? Anybody heard something?
one exemple : the last ATR pilots in vietnam airlines, have not been renewed.
And now, it will be more and more the same case on airbus fleet.
Unfortunately IMO you would have better chances if you pay for a TR A320 than staying on ATR....
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