Everyone, I have followed this thread with interest.
Is everyone at CIA on the Cebu-pacific sponsorship scheme - where 50% of the course fee is paid by Cebu pacific?
If not, do the cadets realise that the MPL is worthless? The MPL schemes that have happened in Europe (Denmark and England) have been airline specific so training is managed with airline SOPs from day 1 with a Type Rating on the aircraft that the airline operated. This is the correct procedure for an MPL course.
If CIA have a generic MPL course (or a course based on the Cebu Pacific SOPs), then anyone who is not "guaranteed" a Cebu Pacific position will come out with a worthless license.
PAL will not touch you, neither would Air Philippines, Asian Spirit(whatever the new name is) etc. Also, you will not be able to fly GA (General Aviation) as you do not have a CPL ME/IR.
Does everyone at CIA know this? If not, then I am so sorry for you. because the MPL is worthless if you are not guaranteed a job at an airline. this is not my opinion. This is 100% fact based on what is happening here in the EU.
thank you for your reply. My post was in no way meant to put the Philippines on a lower standing. I was not trying to make it sound like Clark was a bad school. I have read the posts and I have not formed an opinon due to the negative things that were said here.
I am purely here to tell you about what the MPL is and how it is viewd in the EU.
Your post was saying that the MPL taught at Clark is continually improving etc and give it a chance. Fair enough.
But if I joined Clark and spent $35000, I would still come out in 2009/2010 with a worthless licence. That is the truth. Do you think I care that the failings of my course helps cadets 1 year or 2 years after? Do you think my parents care about other cadets when I do not have a job? But it is ok because it is a "work in progress"?
If you are not affiliated with a partner airline like Cebu Pacific form the begining, then you will NEVER get a job. This is truth. The MPL is airline specific. Ther proof is there.
I am not putting anyone down. I am just wondering what is the opinion of cadets in Clark at present? Have they been told that if they are not Cebu Pacific cadets, then the MPL is worthless?
You do not need to advertise Philippines! I love the country. I am half english, half malay. The philippines is VERY underated. It is a beautiful place with great people and a VERY HIGH level of English. But this is irrelevant. Because if Clark was in England, the licence would still be worthless!
the scary thing is that I don't think students were given the full picture and were probably told that the MPL is greta blah blah blah.
YES! The MPL is 'probably' the course of the future because this training scheme can supply the deman for pilots within a year compared to 2 years with an fATPL+TR.
But that is that the MPL will ONLY be airline specific.
All you need to do is make a quick phonecall to Air Philippines, Asian Spirit, and |PAL and ask the HR department whether (if there was a need for pilots) would they consider an MPL license? Their answer would be no.
I hope ALL cadets not affiliated with Cebu Pacific were made aware of this.
Have been watching this thread with interest since my time in the Phils, am EXTREMELY glad that the cadets have got into the cockpit at long last.. you are a credit to the industry and to yourselves, I keep my fingers crossed that you go on to have long illustrious careers and manage to stick two fingers up at the doubters and the people who've tried their very hardest to ruin it all for you.
If CIA have a generic MPL course (or a course based on the Cebu Pacific SOPs), then anyone who is not "guaranteed" a Cebu Pacific position will come out with a worthless license.
Care to expound why it is worthless? In the scenario you mentioned, if the CAAP gives out a license, how will that license be worthless? perhaps showing the relevant Philippines CAR provisions to this effect would be a good starting point. Hint: EU experience does not count, unless you think a poor third world country ought to just follow the lead of EU.
PAL will not touch you, neither would Air Philippines, Asian Spirit(whatever the new name is) etc.
How are you privy to their thinking? Unless you have insider info, or you are an insider in the top management of said companies you mentioned (by the way, there is no more Air Philippines), you very well know that you are in no position to speak for these companies.
Also, you will not be able to fly GA (General Aviation) as you do not have a CPL ME/IR
I don't think that was ever the intention.
All you need to do is make a quick phonecall to Air Philippines, Asian Spirit, and |PAL and ask the HR department whether (if there was a need for pilots) would they consider an MPL license? Their answer would be no.
skyhigh you must be in a place so high as to have a ready answer to your own question. Pretty clever.
if i do your dare and i get a positive answer, why would i even post it here? to glorify your pontification?
TO OTHERS:
i have been reading this entire thread for a month now and it is pretty obvious how this is populated by people with varying agenda. i am beginning to see a pattern here: whenever CA makes an important milestone, the thread gets divided into two: those who are happy with the success and those who wish to point out how CA still lacks something, and that is an understatement.
i have witnessed mudslinging, name calling, racism (in this day and age!), and the worst trouble-making imaginable. i am not particularly knowledgeable about CA's past except for those mentioned here in this thread, but what is clear is that CA has managed to finish cadets and take them to 5J, when at one time it was impossible to do so. let's give credit where it is due.
as others have mentioned, now the next step we should monitor is what happens to their non-Cebu cadets. i would imagine that it is in the interest of both the school and the regulator to find a workable solution, as this will have an impact on the reputation of the Philippines and their ambition to be a center for aviation training in the region.
anything else is purely rumor and scare mongering.
i have questions for you for which i hope you can provide answers. but if you can't that's also not a problem.
1.I can verify however that the way the MPL is structured in the UK and the whole EU is airline specific.
is this a requirement of all ICAO member states or is this a UK and EU initiative? pardon my ignorance, but i cannot seem to identify a restriction to this effect from the ICAO documents regarding MPL.
if this is ICAO requirement (as reflected in ICAO Annex 1), then Philippines and CA should follow.
if this is NOT ICAO requirement (which is what it seems to me, pls correct me if i am wrong), then would you agree that EU and UK don't have any business preaching how another fellow member state should behave?
2. Gulf Air I believe has/will be about to embark on an MPL but this is GulfAir focused - like the MPL is supposed to be. So again any Clark pilot who took the genric MPL course would not be able to apply for Gulf.
last time i checked, the Gulf isn't composed of Gulfair alone. however, again the question would be, do we know for certain that Gulf air or any of the other Gulf airlines are not willing to take in MPL from another country/ ATO? Or are we assuming again?
3. I believe Mr Narmon is still the top recruitment guy at PAL so I am pretty sure he could give a quick answer if anyone wanted to call him. But remember, considering PAL already have their own school and take 2 batches a year-fATPL, straight away the national carrier of Philippines is another closed door to MPL cadets.
If I call PAL now, they will answer with their standard protocol -- min 1500H of flying time with CPL/ IR, but will give exemptions to low hour pilots only if they are "deserving" graduates of PAL AV school. Even if that is the case, isn't it fair to say that PAL not saying anything about MPL now does not mean they are not thinking about it?
4. Singapore Airlines have their own training school along with Cathay Pacific. So I can not see these two SE Asian airlines recruiting MPL cadets from Philippines.
I cannot see it either! but again wouldn't it be too presumptuous to conclude there is nothing going on in the region?
Yes, the times they are a'changin, but for the life of me, could you please answer Betpumps question re whatever will happen to the non bupakers. If I heard it right, it was Cebu Pac who finished their own cadets, not Clark (that's according to the people in CAAP). They said it was all about the takeoff and landing requirement. That true? Clark cannot provide that requirement? How come? Just asking, nothing against the program, really.
nothing really surprising with Cebu doing Base Training for Clark as Sterling did Base Training for CAPA's MPL graduates and China Southern/ Xiamen Airlines did for Alteon's graduates. no big deal there.
why the font changes? we can read your post in regular type and color.
my position is the same. this is an anonymous forum where everyone and his uncle will claim to know stuff. so let's celebrate the sure stuff (Clark finishing cadets, MPL cadets reportedly doing well in Base Training) and reserve judgment on what we don't know or what we cannot prove.
I gave a look at he Clark institute's website in Philippine.
where are the planes, all I can see is a nice simulator 320?
I don't want waste my time to read the 34 pages, can you resume me the situation there?.
I understand, Cebu pacific should "sponsor" students from clark.
and Clark Aviation work with alpha aviation.
If I understand correctly, Clark has financial problems due to the actual crisis and bad management; lack of instructors...(are they looking for flight instructors?)
this is a problem I have seen in many school. They see too big, and have failed.
Train a pilot is very complicated...
you know guys, all these schools are telling bullock. What they want is your cash, then they don't care if you have problems or not.
These guys make money from you, they sit their ass all day long behind a desk, they wait for their money every 30 days, why should they care about students?
I have seen managers building schools with million of US$, buying the best flight m simulators, but they are unable to run a school professionally.
They think if you have the best hardware (A320, 737,...), you will train the best pilots in the world and Students will come to play with their sim.What a concept!!!
It doesn't matter what you fly, a 172 or an A320, at the end, the best pilot is the one who is still alive and who fly.
It 's not about race, religion, school, or type rating, it's about pilot attitude and professionalism.I have 4 licenses from different country, and actually the best place for training is USA, Canada, and maybe south Africa and Australia.
if you are looking for a JAR license, go to UK to convert to JAR.
I don't think Asian countries have the experience to train pilots.They are too corrupt and unwilling to take any responsibilities. I would not invest one penny in an Asian flight school.
am glad you finally figured that 1 out. the worst part of it is that clark aviation has always been a problem and no one cares for these students. i dropped out because nothing was ever accomplished. mgmt realizes that there is big money here to be put into there pockets,, from the foreigners to the locals running the school. did anyone ever graduate?????????????? its php4million for the course, were is the diploma???
i would suggest that if any of you idiots want to give your money away give it to charity or something else. dont waste your time training in a school thats corrupt, doesnt care for the students or anything else.
do you believe it. i know it. these guys who argue that the mpl license is good, work for clark. they are probably in on the take.
they have 100 students at php4,000,000 each, that php400,000,000. you figure it out.
the philippines is corrupt dont deny it. its a fact of life but what can you do????
investigate 1st before you invest your money. stupidy is the filipino who doesnt want to investigate 1st. thats why they lose their money. i have seen clark A grow from 2005 i was a student who just got tired of the B******T................
you guys who think you know more are just working for CA..
I don't know clark, and I don't care about their crap.I give you my point of view.
I don't think it was set to run a scam....here I explain how a flight school is losing his money:
I have seen many schools during these last 20 years, and many have failed (3/4 are out).
the MPL was introduced because no one wanted to launch this type of training, it s new, revolutionar,....whatever.... I don't say it s good or bad as I have all licenses included the Airbus rating, so I am well positioned to talk about the advantage and disadvantage of this MPL but who cares of that. What a student want, is a service for his money!!!.
The MPL in Phillipine could have worked, but it 's very hard for a school to take care of planes and big simulators in same time.
Then there is the human factor to ad, I mean students need a place to stay, to live,...so now we are talking about a real big big school, with a big infrastructure, lot of personels(instructor, mechanic, examiner, assistant,..., all these mean a LOT of money.
in the actual climate, it can NOT work. Even flight safety in florida, the biggest school in the world, have lot of problems.
So here we are, some crazy people who come with lot of ideas, and specially a new idea that nobody know if it s going to work or not... :the MPL.
wooow, I have now a hard one, ahah!!!oh, yes, we are going to make lot of $$$ say the bank, (this they don't tell you).
Then you see these managers, starting their academy of smurfs with millions of $, building a flight school, setting offices, sim, retroprojectors, computers,...etc....(oh, it look like a real "academy"!).
then they discover they dont have enough money, so they start to take students money to pay debts to the bank.
then month after month, there is a delay in the program, and the bank want his money after they realize it' s going to be a fiasco.
so the school cancel planes' order, and start to say bullock to students who still belive that planes are coming, and all will be ok...
you start to see the company going down and down more and more, and people saying it s going to be OK!!!
Be real,when a school has 34 pages on PPRuNe of complaints, it s in point of view not a good school.
The last student I have met in this aviation field, has just lost 10'000$. His manager run away and filed bankrupt. since the time, we all say don't pay too much in advance, what did you learn? nothing! how much Clark charged you, 80'000$, probably more?
and by the way, you can not work with these Asian people. they are lazy, take no responsibility and wait their salary.
I don't give a toss of this school, I fly now since years, so I am total neutral . I just found this on PPRuNe, and I start to look at it. in my point of view you should GET OUT and TAKE YOUR MONEY...cuz the titanic is sinking!
and by the way, you can not work with these Asian people. they are lazy, take no responsibility and wait their salary.
Racist! YOu dont know what you're talking about.
Do you want me to stoop down to your level? Actually, it was those 3 white people (plus another white they hired to fix the core flying phase.. which was supposedly their job in the first place)who starting the mpl program here in Clark who was lazy and talk nothing but bull during the initial phase of the program. Too lazy that they just sat around their desk watching football instead of teaching students groundschool and fixing the Flight school license!!
Good thing that they got fired!! And asians replaced them.. atleast, these asian managements fixed the mess that those 3 made and worked round the clock. So who's lazy now?! Geez!
Im not saying that whats happening to our school is already out of the danger areas. While there are 3 students got their a320 12 TAGS while 7 are waiting for their turn sometime this month, there are still hundreds for CA to problem about which was caused by mismanagement of the 3 stupid white ex-employees.
One important thing I learned from aviation (early this stage of my life), is that it changes everytime. One moment, you seem to be on top of the world, the next, you realized you dont know what hit you! It goes vice versa should I say.
So my point is, that its funny how some forumers think of this MPL project as static, and cant be worked out. Everything changes from time to time. It is dynamic and the project and the versatile ASIAN people would adapt to the needs to make this work out. (unlike some white people I know who cant adapt to his environment... poor thing!)
As for you Batman, thanks for boasting that you have multiple license and bothered to say your grudges to Asian people here in our forums. It really looked like you had a bitter past that you cant get over with! hahaha.. get a psychologist.. i think you're too rich not to give it a try. it MIGHT work you know.
Sorry, I have to correct my statement about asian people being lazy.
what I tried to say, this school was run by european or US people trying to make money from you,I don't know exactly who run this school, but I know by experience that people who know nothing about aviation just follow a leader who just want make big bucks.Such business is proned to fail!
Buying a sim 320, it s like showing a toy at 20'000 millions $ and then say to everyone, "see? we can train for the MPL"... well, let' s see how many of you will be trained and how many of you will get a job when thousand of A320 pilots are struggling to get a job.
ok, let's correct my statement, asian people are not lazy, they are hard worker , but why they should work when their leader is making foul of their students.
I will do the same! and I am not asian!I am not lazy, but when the titanic sink, nobody give a toss about you.
clark is apparently run or was runed by some monkeys who know knothing about training pilots, and thought it was simple to train a pilot.
just by a sim, build some rooms, and classrooms and that's all.
If now it s run by asian people, it s going to be same...
I don't see asian people to run a flight school. too much corruption.
sorry guys, it s not working like that.
About the quality of the training, I can tell you most asian coutries will teach you crap. I dont belive that these asian pilots can teach you correctly by following ICAO standards and Airbus syllabus.
I dont talk about the indian pilots, who are just a farce.
the sad thing: some people make u belive u can go on a A320 in minimum time, and minimum effort.These planes are very complex, specialy during failures, so spend 200h in the A320, with a minum hours of real experience in a C172. what do you know about pilot decision, GO or NO GO???
it is not in a sim you learn that, it s by looking outside we can see in what kind of sauce you will fly.But some monkeys people will tell you how to fly a sim, when they have no idea how to fly a cessna.
I do believe you can learn to fly an airbus, then fly in smaller planes, why not?? the 320 is highly automatic, so it s possible.Yes USA and europe, we dont want to accept that, we are old fashioned...let s give a try!give them their chance.
if europe and USA like to stick to their rules, it s because aviation there is the safest in the world, when pilots in asia, are called plane crashers!!!
I think this MPL licens is not so bad, but it s very risky and limited because for the same price you can have a real license with unlimited plane and a MPL.In europe, Britsh airways trained guys with 200h and are now on the 777.
anyway fly safe... (why would you care to fly safe, you have no idea how to fly a REAL plane!!!LOL)
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