Just how successful the MPL will be is still uncertain as of course no MPL license has yet been issued. However if the MPL isnít a success, there are going to be a lot of airframes parked up in deserts as no one else has come up with an alternative solution to address the pilot shortage
I have my doubts about the whole thing. I often wonder if the whole MPL concept was dreamed up on the basis of false information.
MPL's are for future FO's.... But where is the shortage of FO's in the world, the place where there just aren't any left to hire? Or you can't find an expat to do the job?
If there is a shortage, it's of highly experienced, highly specialized pilots such as TRE and TRI.. Not 250 hour FO's.
So I just don't see why we need this program.
There is no shortage of FO's wanting to work.
Just look at the wait list to get on an Eagljet program... Pay to work for free.
^ no disrespect to pilots from the Philippine Air Force who have gone commercial, but even with them... there is still still a demand for pilots since PAL and Cebu Pacific ordered a total of more than 20 long haul and medium range aircraft due in the next few years.
why hire an expat to fly in the Philippines if they would easily refuse a take home salary of less than $1.5K/month? company policies reluctant in hiring expats perhaps? i'm not sure what the situation is in India.
just want to share 1. MPL is ICAO inititative. MPL is not yet recognize here in the Philippines to be clear. Air Transportaion Office (ATO) is aware of the ICAO regulation but it is subject to host country acceptance to be legally binding and recognized. SO far, theres no papers from ATO recognizing MPL. So the license issue is still in limbo. 2. Cebu PAC (flight operations department per se) does not believe in this Clark Institute Aviation MPL concept. This scholarship program is the brainchild of the Cebu PAC senior consultant Mr Brian Hogan to address pilot exodus from CEBU PAC. He's not an aviation enthusiast, yet he decide absurd things w/out thinking . to tell you the truth Pao, Flight OPS is in limbo on how to accept this inexperienced and safety risk MPL graduates to the line. 3. To other MPL students, job opportunities for you guys are very limited although you are A-320 sim rated. No airlines will accept you because of your experience level.it happen before in Europe and Middle East with the S.O.and 3rd officer from PAL and Cathay. 4. To parents and interested students palnning to go to Clark Institute Aviation, think over. The prospect may be bright due to the A-320 openings all over the world but this only applies for an already pilots, experienced pilots that is holder of Commercial Pilot License or ATPL but not MPL. You might put into waste your 3M pesos. You must need to monitor and watch out how will the graduates of the 1st batch of MPL students will fare and survive in the aviation business. Be aware that CIA has not delivered what it promises to make you A-320 certified within 1 year. Until now, the 1st batch with are almost a year in training is still on its ground trng phase and not yet in flying portion. Everybody is affected down the line.The prospect now is not on tyhe horizon. And parents, please dont believe on the advertisement on newspapers that guarantee you employment at ceb PAc, its a big no no.it is marketing strategy on the part of the school to entice students. Cebu pac might have scholars there (an error admitted by Mr Hogan), but the issue on how to integrate the graduates into the line is creating boardroom battle among the top mgmt in the company.
No there is no reason "for minimum fligh time"! Air France, Singapore, British Airways, Lufthansa....they all have cadets starting their career with roughly 200hrs total...and they don't crash everyother night. It's all a matter of 1-initial selection 2-quality training 2-selection based solely on skills 3-follow up during each and every step of their young carrer! Cheers!
Yes, these airlines have pilots who started there career with only 200hrs flight time but dont forget the fact that they are admitted only as 2nd Officer or Flight engineer (being the 3rd crew) on wide body aircraft such as 747-400, A-330/340. They only do the Pilot Not Flying (PNF) duties meaning radio and paper works but not the handling. This is to let them gained timed, be familiarizes and be exposed to the workload in the cockpit.These set up works on wide bodied airline but not in the case of a narrow body aircraft such as a-320 which is designed for a 2 man operating crew wherein PF and PNF role interchange with each other.Give me proof wherein a student pilot with such no. of hours were given immediate co-pilot duties in A-320/330/340, Boeing 737, 777, 767, 757 in these airlines.
When we did our A320 full-course training with Airbus in Miami in 2005 most of the first batch of Cbupac ex-Dc9 pilots had at least 4000hours of flying time, about 2500 of which were on Dc9's. We all had an incredibly hard time coping up with the steep learning curve. And most had to have extra sessions on the sims and really barely passed the final check. It was really that HARD! I even said to myself that this will be the last Aircraft Type rating im doing and i'll be happy to fly 320's until retirement.
And it wasn't only us pinoys who was getting pummeled, there were Mexicans, Indians and Americans who all agreed that this Plane is the hardest to learn in their careers. When I did my upgrade training in Minneapolis, the shuttle bus driver said that the only time he's seen grown men cry was when they were unsuccessful in passing the 320 transition courses. And these were NWA pilots with thousands of hours on previous generation jets.
So what im saying is...if pilots with THOUSANDS of hours of real Jet time have a hell of a time getting to pass a 320 qualification course, how can someone with 70 hours on a single-engine plane barely faster than a BMW 3-series be sharp enough to pass? If ever he does pass...can you honestly say it is safe for him to sit on the right seat with 178 paying passengers at the back? Oh well...let's just wait and see when the first CIA MPL graduates show up on the line. Who knows?
Last edited by thrust clb; 12th Aug 2007 at 07:59.
The Airlines I have been involved with Training Ab Initio approved courses are BA and MAS these are specially structured courses. At MAS the course graduates when I was involved with training came out with CPL/IR frozen ATPL. Normally they went to 737 fleet not as radio operators but Junior FO's flying duties as such. The course is structured for that reason. The MPL seems awful short though.
"Yes, these airlines have pilots who started there career with only 200hrs flight time but dont forget the fact that they are admitted only as 2nd Officer or Flight engineer (being the 3rd crew) on wide body aircraft such as 747-400, A-330/340. They only do the Pilot Not Flying (PNF) duties meaning radio and paper works but not the handling. "
Wrong! You are a cadet with Air France, you will start as FO on the A320 as PF every other leg. Same with Qantas cadets at JSA!
Airbrake23, I'm afraid you're not correct when you state that these 200 hr pilots only perform non-handling duties with their airlines. For many years, some of the most advanced airlines in the world have been training their own cadets and putting them into the RHS of a modern jet as co-pilots who are fully approved to do all handling and non-handling duties as soon as they have been line-checked. Think of companies such as virtually all the major Eurpoean ones, BA, Air France, Lufthansa, SAS etc plus all the LCCs such as Easyjet and Ryanair. None of them have had any problem with the level of experience - they just ensure that the new co-pilot is trained to the required standard and then he/she just gets on with the job of doing the 'real learning' on the line. Only in parts of Asia (large parts I'm afraid) and Africa is there a reluctance to do the same. In the USA and Australia, there tends to be a progression from air taxi, to freight to commuter to airline but even there Qantas has had 200 hr cadets for years. It's not unusual at all in the rest of the world. Strangely, these parts of the world also have the best accident rates.
However, I would caution any young person (and any parent who might have to finance it) considering the MPL route to be very very careful. The licence is NOT YET RECOGNISED by most countries and it may be extremely difficult to get a job unless one is sponsored by an airline with a 'job guarantee' at the end of the course. Also, the quality and reputation of both the flying school and the authority that approves it must be critically examined. Had Clark Aviation been around long enough for either of these criteria to be met? And why is a UK company setting up this new process in The Philippines? Why not under the auspices of the UK CAA (even if they wanted to take advantage of lower costs in Clark)?
There is a huge difference on the theoretical syllabus and on the Flight training between the European System (JAA) and the FAA system. As you have noticed Major US Airlines recruit experienced pilots (+ University diplomas in Aviation or US AF well trained pilot), the only US experience of AB-Initio cadets was in 2000 but has been interrupted by the events of 09/11 and it appears it was not very successful. Yes there is an European know-how, quite sophisticated and formalised in the JAA licence. So, before comparing Low Hours cadets, you have to take into account also this important difference in standards. Also, the failure rate is quite high in Europe, in some Asian countries, such a failure rate is not acceptable as per cultural environment.