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Old 4th Jun 2005, 06:33   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 11
Grrr My MAS Cadet Pilot application experience.

I'm halfway (somewhat) through the application process for MAS cadet pilot.

I applied via mail in mid March.

I received a letter in mid May calling me to come in for the Psychometry test. The letter arrived in my mailbox on a friday; I was scheduled to take the test on a tuesday. There was no phone number to call to reschedule, so I had to take "personal emergency" leave to attend the test.

Nowadays the test results are given immediately (well, about 20 minutes after the test). Passed, was told to attend the aptitude/written test (MIPSA) about 2 weeks later. Being currently employed, I asked if it was possible to reschedule in case I couldn't get leave, and was told that "either attend on this day, or forget about being a cadet pilot."

Anyway, I thought the aptitude part of MISPA was pretty easy. The psychology part is what worries me, I suppose.

So anyway here I am waiting with my fingers crossed over the next 2-3 weeks (?) to know if I get called in for an interview. I asked if I would be informed if I failed this step. Answer: "No." I then asked if I could be informed (assuming success) by phone instead of mail. Answer: "Maybe."

So far I've been somewhat annoyed by the recruiting staff' total lack of concern with the prospective candidates. When talking to them I get the impression that they couldn't care less about us, since (presumably) they get tons of applications.

Will update this if/when any other new developments occur. In the meantime, would love any tips for the interview with regards to what kinds of questions would be asked.

<3
Deodorant is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2005, 13:34   #2 (permalink)
 
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No one force you to apply cadetship, if you're not happy, Don't join!!!
flightleader is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2005, 14:27   #3 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
No one force you to apply cadetship, if you're not happy, Don't join!!!
Flightleader,

Are you giving deodorant an example of MAS recruiting staff attitude?
Deodorant is just sharing his experience with people who would be interested to know. Nice, friendly and helpful recruiting staff can definitely help calm down Cadet applicants, who care very much about the selection. The are of course nervous and excited at the same time.
If you're not happy, don't read.
HectorXVIII is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2005, 16:11   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Actually, flightleader's post (whether intentional or not) was exactly the kind of experience I've had with MAS so far.

I'm currently employed in the HR department of an MNC that had US$2billion net profit last year, and we treat even potential janitors with a lot more respect than what I've received from MAS recruiting staff.

(To anyone who thinks I'm bragging, I hold an extremely, extremely junior position that has long hours, pays peanuts and is terribly un-glamorous, I'm only trying to illustrate that despite our size our policy when hiring is to give due respect to anybody who applies, which is apparently too much to ask for from our MAS' counterparts).
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Old 5th Jun 2005, 04:09   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Gentlemen,

This is exactly the same attitude everyone had to endure since the beginning of time.If one has interest and passion, my advice is to just hold you breath and take the s**t that is being dished out because once you are an officer of the company, these clerks dont mean squat to you.I for one is all for mutual respect irrespective of position(like deodorant) but the sad truth is that is the way it is here in MAS.
Another sad truth would dawn on you once you are in this organisation is that you would still have to deal with people of this caliber who expect you to beg them to do THEIR job in claiming your rights to benefits(whatever abysmal benefits that are left in this company eg. you FREE annual travel for you and your family which is by the way on sub load basis)
The problem here lies with the management who call their pilots 'officers' of the company BUT the ATTITUDE of the management is that 'you should be thankful we gave you a chance and a job' ......so you see my dear friends, one cant fully put the blame on these recruitment staff as its 'exampled on leadership???"
triplebogey is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2005, 08:14   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 123
Unfortunately, for all those aspiring to be pilots in MAS, the culture that you encounter in the initial stages only gets worse once you're in Flt Ops. Might as well get used to it now.

There were many who thought they could change the mindset of those who were already in the system. However, they found it was a lost cause. From the janitors to the senior general managers, there was no effort made to turn the lumbering behemoth that is MAS.

We have lived under the system for so long and many of us recognise this fact. Whilst we encourage you in your endeavour to become a pilot it might serve you well to know that you'll be encountering very much more of the same and worse in MAS.

Gives a whole new meaning to "Going Beyond Expectations."
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Old 5th Jun 2005, 08:18   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
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Smile

Deo,


Welcome to mas even if you are not in yet. Hey thats interesting , I was in HR with a .....well not so MNC but a large foreign company b4 getting in as well, and to be honest I was shocked at the initial treatment I got at mas. Then I had a year break at overseas training school, then back to mas.

I know exactly how you feel. had to use up all excuses in the book to attend the interviews and test and medicals. It was tough but just had to do it la. I know you are not complaining about that as well. Thats normal la.What would have helped is if the people on the other end of the phone were a little more helpful with people who had jobs la like at least give a a fighting chance with earlier notice so we could plan the flu and not leave our compadres at work in a spot with our " suddently frequent " MIA's

Hope you get in. Be prepared though. Some aspects of mas are great. Some just stink so bad !!!!!!
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Old 5th Jun 2005, 15:16   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Deodorant,
Part and parcel of life. Just concentrate on your goal and good luck.
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Old 6th Jun 2005, 12:28   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Deo,

Why would the HR staff need to be so caring to applicants' feelings? There are thousands and thousands of applicants for him to process.
You expect MAS staff to beg you to join? Send you a limo to pick you up at your house and drive you to MFA? Get real! you are the one begging for the job. This is the real world where you make a life out of yourself. No more mummy spoon feeding,find your own food.
If you can't handle a little bit of attitude a clerk has, how are you gonna speak up to 747 captain when he did something wrong while yelling at you during you line training? Are you gonna seat at the corner and sob or would you be able to put your personal feeling aside and point out his fault professionally for the sake of a safe flight?
If you wanna change HR staff's attitude. Please apply under HR department, become their boss one day and set them straight. All the pilots will say thank you. I'll be the 1st one.


Hector,

Did DEO ask for your defense? Stop playing mummy. Deo is old enough to be a cadet, he is old enough to take some cream pies in the face. MAS is a great place to be trainned as a pilot but MAS ( and the pilot association) need no babies!
flightleader is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2005, 12:45   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: borneo
Posts: 20
they will make sure that you remember that you owe them your job like as if they now own your life. and every now and then they will send reminders to you that you should be grateful that you have a job!
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Old 6th Jun 2005, 13:48   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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A baby? Me? Mmm, name-calling and personal attacks does seem to be a fairly popular debate strategy on internet message boards.

But I digress. Anyway personally I wasn't complaining about the HR staff per se, it was just part of the overall experience so far. Apparently the wording came across as a huge complaint to at least one person, so that's something for me to keep mind of in future.

I find it extremely amusing that you're implying I'm some 18 year old momma's boy still wet behind the ears trying to find his first job, when everything you know about me comes from two posts on a message board.

In a similar vein I feel no pressing need to explain myself to a total stranger, so I won't.

In any case, I've attended lots of interviews over the years, for part time jobs, internships, real jobs, both big and small, with companies with less than 10 employees, all the way to huge multinationals that employ hundreds of thousands. In my current employment I've also conducted or witnessed hundreds of interviews for all sorts of posts. None of the HR staff (incidentally, I'm in HR too atm in case you missed my previous post) owed any of the job applicants anything, and yet (mostly) all of them treated me with more respect than what I got from the MAS HR staff.

The fact is, practically every company nowadays will accomodate reasonable requests during the recruitment stage, because they're actually interested in selecting the best possible from the pool of applicants.

Mmmm. Got interrupted by something and I lost my train of thought, so i'll just leave it hanging there. Gotta go anyway <3
Deodorant is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2005, 14:02   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Malaysia
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Flightleader,
Are you saying the attitude of MAS HR staff is correct? I'm not trying to be mummy here, just giving some encouragement. What happenned to courtesy and politeness? Don't you remember being thought this value in school?
HectorXVIII is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2005, 09:03   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Posts: 198
Deo,

In one post you are annoyed with the staff. In another you said you are not complaining. What are you trying to tell us? Can't make up your mind or changed after reading my comments? I've never implied that you are 18,some people never grow up even they are in their 50s.

My message to you is:- Don't complain about your future company( its staff in this case) before you step inside.Earn respect from someone rather than expect it.

Since you can't take a little cream pie in the face, there will be no more comment on you, as you wish.

Hectar,

I came from the best class of the best private school in the state. My values are none of your concern. However, bitching about one's future employer ( or its staff) is most inappropriate. Wouldn't you agree? If Deo has shown a little sincere gratitude like ToPoChi ( in another topic), he would have got all the support from everyone.
Since you are so 'supportive', why don't you give him some pointers?

I've no intention to put you down in any means but you are the one who started it by equating me to the HR staff. For the benefit of all who read this forum, we should stop this here. Shall we?
flightleader is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2005, 10:42   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Oh, you can read minds now? You ought to teach me sometime, I bet that ability would come in handy.

I've never changed my mind. My first post about MAS HR staff was intended to be nothing more than just a passing comment. Unfortunately you read it as a complaint, which I will attribute to irreconcilable differences in upbringing/language/culture/race/whatever.

In any case, while it's true you didn't imply that I was young in age, you certainly did imply that I am young in experience and mentality. No offense taken, though.

Proverbially speaking I don't even have a foot in MAS' door yet, so MAS isn't quite my "future company."

Yes, yes, lots of nitpicking. Office system went down for no reason and I still have about half an hour to kill.

I do agree with what you said about earning respect. Looking at my previous posts perhaps it was bad wording on my part. I don't expect respect from the HR people, or from any other stranger for that matter. What I do expect is a little understanding that not everyone has just finished SPM and is unemployed and is available 24/7 on a 5-minute advance notice.

On an unrelated note, I thought that (quote) "I came from the best class of the best private school in the state (sic)" rather amusing. Which state? ^_^ (<-- this face is supposed to symbolize sarcasm, which transfers horribly via text).

I also find your views amusing and somewhat out of touch with reality. I'm supposed to show my "sincere gratitude" to MAS for considering me for this post?

I'm sorry, but I'm not some beggar asking for charity. The main purpose of the cadet pilot recruitment, like every other recruitment drive for every company in existence, is obtaining employees who will work for the company and earn profits for it. Yes, there are other non-profit factors involved, for example cultivating home-grown talent instead of foreigners, but the bottom line for every company is how much profit (or loss) it reports to the shareholders at the next AGM.
Deodorant is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2005, 12:36   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 10
Flightleader,
I agree with you about gaining respect. However, my point is, in HR or whatever department that is, some courtesy and politeness are always good. Its no harm for the company and the staff as well. I'm not saying job applicants should be treated like customers but definitely should not be treated with rudeness. Imagine MAS sales department have this kinda attitude towards its customers.
I apologize to quote you in the first place, but your post wasn't very helpful to the Deo's first post. Anyway, as you said for the benefit of this forum, I'll just leave it here. Getting out of topic too. Cheers!!!!!


Deo,
Cool it ok, thats a very important value of a pilot. Good luck. Can't give you pointers, never been to MAS HR before.
HectorXVIII is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2005, 16:19   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 101
Guys,

Flightleader has got very good points put out. Somewhere else in this forum, I was quite defensive of the standards of malaysian pilots. Think it was in the getting jobs in euro thingy, however it is looking like in a few years I will be echoing those sentiments.

I have been around in mas for quite awhile now and see exactly what flightleader was getting at. The posting by some cadets and cadets to be here is what raises some eyebrows. Lately we have been getting a bunch of people out from MFA that have Hmmmm an "attitude problem"

I was willing to be cautiously sympathetic to deo as well but , hey !
Brianigham is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2005, 01:39   #17 (permalink)
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Yellow card, folks... necks, in, wind.

Less off the ad hominem, please, Latin for don't play the player, play the ball.
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Old 8th Jun 2005, 11:49   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 11
Flightleader hasn't replied, i'm so disappointed T_T

Hector > I'm cool, anonymous and civilised debate on random message boards is a hobby of mine. Admittedly, I'm not very good at it, but still!

Reading back to my previous post it came across as a little more hostile than I wanted it to.

Personally I have nothing against the HR staff. Being from the same line I can understand how it's hard to be enthusiastic choosing 10 people from a pool of 1000 applicants, especially when you've been doing the same damn thing over and over and over again for 10 years.

[Semi-Unrelated, Long-winded story below]

And at least I have to give them credit for being honest with their feelings. I have a friend in a local subsidiary of a big multi-national's HR department. They have a yearly management trainee drive, and they treat the applicants like kings. The introduction week is held not at the company, but at a swanky hotel with catered meals.

Sounds great, no? Well, this star treatment is purposely to snare the suckers - they find themselves smack in a 10+ hour a day, high stress environment with low pay and virtually no promotion prospects. They can't leave either, thanks to a 2-year bond that they signed.

After the 2 years more than half of them leave. The company itself isn't affected though; the replacements are eating food in a posh hotel as the new batch of management trainees.

So in this way, apparently the company saves a lot of money because of not having to dole out promotions or pay raises.

I can't imagine being in those employees shoes - being treated like royalty specifically for the purpose of getting exploited for two years. Kinda like how cows are bred specifically for their meat, haha.

[Semi-unrelated, Long-winded story above]

Back to the issue at hand, my initial purpose for this thread was just to describe the entire recruitment experience, and attempt to provide a objective comparison to other companies' job recruitments. I do not expect or want any sympathy or "pats on the back." I'm old enough that it doesn't affect me, and I get far worse $hit from my boss on a daily basis.

Also, I don't want to come across as being an arrogant SOB who thinks that the HR staff should be on their knees offering me a job. Far from it, I know that ultimately whether or not I get the job depends on what they think of me, so I do try to be humble.

But being humble and being a doormat are two different things entirely; a company that routinely walks over their employees as if its' employees owe them their lives will eventually lose them - which is possibly one of the factors of the recent MAS pilot exodus problems.

I will end today's post with a not-very-tasteful joke, if you're not interested, then don't read further.

[Bad Language Alert]
A visiting missionary to a jungle village pays a visit to the village chief, and brings along a present of a box of tylenol (panadol/aspirin/whatever), saying, "Chief, this is for headaches."

Noticing that the village was having a population explosion problem, on his next trip the missionary presented his host with a box of condoms, saying, "Chief, this is for fscking."

On his third trip there, the missionary was just about to offer the chief another present when he saw the chief pop a tylenol into a condom and swallow it. Horrified, he asked, "Chief, what did you do that for?" to which the chief replied:

"I had a fscking headache."
Deodorant is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2005, 14:39   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kay Ell
Posts: 25
It's interesting to see how a small, very accurate comment on the HR's attitude to recruitment can raise such ire and bring about such comments as cadet pilots having "attitude problems".

Cadet pilots have been having attitude problems for decades now. And some of them are even captains now with the same unchanged "attitude problem", only now they're re-labeled non-company-men.

You cannot expect to employ starry eyed cadets who will bow and scrape to the company's every whim. If that were the case, we'd have no need of a pilot's union. Give intelligent, thinking guys a break.

Recognise that there's a huge flaw in the system people! If an interviewee can see in on his very first visit to the company, does he not have the right to wonder what else is rotten?

Deodorant, I've pm-ed you with some tips hopefully you'll find them useful if you get through to the interview stage.

Most importantly recognise it's all sticks and stones. There's still a lot of joy to be found in this proffession.
willflyer is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2005, 20:27   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Destin
Age: 66
Posts: 12,979
Sounds like MAS treats their pilots just like almost every other aviation outfit in the world....so alas....get used to it. The irony of this...is the young man is in HR himself....so nothing personal to the young man...but there is some justice in this world. The thought of a HR type getting shagged by another HR department seems a bit humourous to me somehow.

Keep after young man....if it is your dream to fly....don't let anything stand in your way....just keep a sense of humour about it and laugh it off as you go.
SASless is offline  
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