Seaplane training, type rating and post-CPL, questions..
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Seaplane training, type rating and post-CPL, questions..
Hello everyone !
I'm a budding trainee pilot in India and I have cleared almost all my DGCA papers, except Tech & RT. I fly the C172 & C152 (conventional cockpit) and I have flown about 80 hours.
I have some questions that I had wanted to ask..
1) Where and how can I learn how to fly a seaplane ?
Does seaplane training come only after CPL or can it be done during the CPL course ? Is there a training institute in India where they can train us on how to fly a seaplane or do we have to go abroad ? What are the approximate training costs ?
2) Type-rating
One of my friends had done his B737 type-rating in UK. Is type-rating done in India ? If so, where ? Does CAE @Bareilly and @Gondia provide type-rating training ? What are the approximate course fees ? If not in India, where can I get my Type-rating done ? Is UK or US a good place for type-rating ? Will I require a conversion in that case ? Do I require IR ?
3) Post-CPL.
After I am done with my CPL training, what next ? I know that it is difficult for fresh-CPL holders to get selected for any major airline. I've read in vacancies that airlines require 1000/2000+ hours, so how do people build up their hours ? I heard IGRUA does have airlines visiting them and NFTI is related to Indigo. I am not part of both of these institutes, so how do I progress further ? I need some advice.
Thanks in advance !
MOVED TO Asian Board as most questions are related to Indian sub-continent
I'm a budding trainee pilot in India and I have cleared almost all my DGCA papers, except Tech & RT. I fly the C172 & C152 (conventional cockpit) and I have flown about 80 hours.
I have some questions that I had wanted to ask..
1) Where and how can I learn how to fly a seaplane ?
Does seaplane training come only after CPL or can it be done during the CPL course ? Is there a training institute in India where they can train us on how to fly a seaplane or do we have to go abroad ? What are the approximate training costs ?
2) Type-rating
One of my friends had done his B737 type-rating in UK. Is type-rating done in India ? If so, where ? Does CAE @Bareilly and @Gondia provide type-rating training ? What are the approximate course fees ? If not in India, where can I get my Type-rating done ? Is UK or US a good place for type-rating ? Will I require a conversion in that case ? Do I require IR ?
3) Post-CPL.
After I am done with my CPL training, what next ? I know that it is difficult for fresh-CPL holders to get selected for any major airline. I've read in vacancies that airlines require 1000/2000+ hours, so how do people build up their hours ? I heard IGRUA does have airlines visiting them and NFTI is related to Indigo. I am not part of both of these institutes, so how do I progress further ? I need some advice.
Thanks in advance !
MOVED TO Asian Board as most questions are related to Indian sub-continent
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@AviathorJosh
Welcome to pprune.org
Other than seaplane question the other two questions are something you should have asked and gotten the answers to long before you entered flight training
Nonetheless I hope the following answers should be able to clear most of your queries
1. Legally speaking you can obtain a seaplane rating on your CPL but unfortunately there are no flight schools in India that currently offer this training
If you were to go abroad and do this training you need to obtain CPL or atleast a PPL with a seaplane rating and convert your license
I have seen single engine seaplane training as cheap as 1500 to 2000 USD depending upon where you go . But these are the minimums and if you cant meet the necessary standards you will need to pay extra for additional training
Since seaplanes are not yet popular in India it would not be a very wise decision to attempt it now . The current seaplane operators hire normal CPL holders and train them specifically for seaplane anyway . So no particular advantage in doing a seaplane rating as of now other that meeting one's own yearning for learning the same
2) Please dont jump on the type rating bandwagon just because thats what everyone is doing
Type rating has its advantages and disadvantages . It costs about 15 - 25 lakhs depending upon which TRTO ( type rating training organisation ) you go for
DGCA type ratings have an expiry date and its costs money ( usually a couple of lakhs ) every year to renew
If you dont do any renewal training for 3 years then the type rating completely expires and you have to do the entire type rating all over again
Doing a type rating also limits you to particular kind of operator thus limiting job opportunities
For eg: If you do a 737 type rating you only have 3 options in India i.e Air India express , Jet Airways and SpiceJet
When an A320 or ATR or Embraer operator comes with a vacancy you might not have enough money to shell out all over again for another type rating
*** Please dont take a loan and do a type rating unless you have a confirmed job offer that pays well ***
And yes get your IR before going for a type rating . A 737 or 320 is not place to learn Instrument Flying and no TRTO will accept you without an Instrument rating ( IR need not be current though )
3) Its been difficult for a fresh CPL holders to get selected in a Major airline in India only because vacancies are few and applicants are too many
Unless you have 1000-2000 hours on type like A320 or B737 jobs were extremely hard to come by
In India airlines dont value 1000-2000 hours of piston engine
For the last 5 -7 years only IndiGo and GoAir have been consistently profitable
Everyone else has been making losses and hence recruitments have been slow to nil
IndiGo and GoAir are the only ones that have consistently recruited although things had slowed down in 2012 and 2013 due to shutdown of kingfisher airlines
GoAir only recruits A320 type rated candidates since 2008 . Because they hire very few pilots they did not have a need to look for CPL holders
Although I predict this will change in the future with large order of A320 NEO's
IndiGo has recruited non type rated CPL holders consistently since 2010 . However since vacancies were limited it was difficult to get called . They only use to call 100 candidates per attempt . This then increased to 150 and later 300 candidates .
Getting called for IndiGo's exam was mostly based on luck or who you knew
However since Jan 2015 IndiGo changed its policy and has called every single eligible candidate and will likely continue this policy for the foreseeable future
They require you to have a Multi IR endorsed on the DGCA license with minimum 25 hour of multi engine experience . You need minimum 15 hours on the multi engine aircraft and maximum 10 can be counted from multi simulator
As of this writing IndiGO charges 36,500 USD $ for the type rating
Jet Airways has also called non type rated and fresh CPL holders . They too have a policy to call everyone that applies . Unfortunately due to financial issues they have a huge backlog
Candidates who gave the exam in 2011 are waiting to join
Candidates who gave the exam in 2013 are awaiting interviews and final medicals
Candidates who gave the exam in 2014 are still waiting for the written exam results
Its quite unlikely that Jet airways will come with another vacancy unless all the backlogs are cleared
You can read the threads on the pprune regarding Jet Airways and IndiGo to get an idea of the recruitment process
SpiceJet should also be conducting exams for its unpredictable as to what basis they call candidates
Air India after many years recruited some A320 type rated pilots in April this year
They are now expected to come with vacancy for fresh CPL holders sometime later this year
Vistara at the moment is only focusing on experienced pilots
AirAsia too hired only experienced pilots but has now started hiring A320 type rated pilots recently
They should be hiring CPL holders soon as they expand
AirCosta hired fresh CPL holders back in 2013 after charing 35 lakhs for the type rating for the E190
AirPegasus and Trujet hired a mix of type rated and non type rated pilots for the ATR fleet
Alliance Air recently concluded a recruitment for ATR type rated pilots
Flyeasy recruited some CPL holders last year as well . They are in the process of obtaining their final approvals by the DGCA
All in all not a bad time to be in Indian Aviation but please keep in mind that there are still thousands of unemployed pilots in India
So competition for jobs are going to be stiff
So keep studying hard and get that CPL at the earliest
Welcome to pprune.org
Other than seaplane question the other two questions are something you should have asked and gotten the answers to long before you entered flight training
Nonetheless I hope the following answers should be able to clear most of your queries
1. Legally speaking you can obtain a seaplane rating on your CPL but unfortunately there are no flight schools in India that currently offer this training
If you were to go abroad and do this training you need to obtain CPL or atleast a PPL with a seaplane rating and convert your license
I have seen single engine seaplane training as cheap as 1500 to 2000 USD depending upon where you go . But these are the minimums and if you cant meet the necessary standards you will need to pay extra for additional training
Since seaplanes are not yet popular in India it would not be a very wise decision to attempt it now . The current seaplane operators hire normal CPL holders and train them specifically for seaplane anyway . So no particular advantage in doing a seaplane rating as of now other that meeting one's own yearning for learning the same
2) Please dont jump on the type rating bandwagon just because thats what everyone is doing
Type rating has its advantages and disadvantages . It costs about 15 - 25 lakhs depending upon which TRTO ( type rating training organisation ) you go for
DGCA type ratings have an expiry date and its costs money ( usually a couple of lakhs ) every year to renew
If you dont do any renewal training for 3 years then the type rating completely expires and you have to do the entire type rating all over again
Doing a type rating also limits you to particular kind of operator thus limiting job opportunities
For eg: If you do a 737 type rating you only have 3 options in India i.e Air India express , Jet Airways and SpiceJet
When an A320 or ATR or Embraer operator comes with a vacancy you might not have enough money to shell out all over again for another type rating
*** Please dont take a loan and do a type rating unless you have a confirmed job offer that pays well ***
And yes get your IR before going for a type rating . A 737 or 320 is not place to learn Instrument Flying and no TRTO will accept you without an Instrument rating ( IR need not be current though )
3) Its been difficult for a fresh CPL holders to get selected in a Major airline in India only because vacancies are few and applicants are too many
Unless you have 1000-2000 hours on type like A320 or B737 jobs were extremely hard to come by
In India airlines dont value 1000-2000 hours of piston engine
For the last 5 -7 years only IndiGo and GoAir have been consistently profitable
Everyone else has been making losses and hence recruitments have been slow to nil
IndiGo and GoAir are the only ones that have consistently recruited although things had slowed down in 2012 and 2013 due to shutdown of kingfisher airlines
GoAir only recruits A320 type rated candidates since 2008 . Because they hire very few pilots they did not have a need to look for CPL holders
Although I predict this will change in the future with large order of A320 NEO's
IndiGo has recruited non type rated CPL holders consistently since 2010 . However since vacancies were limited it was difficult to get called . They only use to call 100 candidates per attempt . This then increased to 150 and later 300 candidates .
Getting called for IndiGo's exam was mostly based on luck or who you knew
However since Jan 2015 IndiGo changed its policy and has called every single eligible candidate and will likely continue this policy for the foreseeable future
They require you to have a Multi IR endorsed on the DGCA license with minimum 25 hour of multi engine experience . You need minimum 15 hours on the multi engine aircraft and maximum 10 can be counted from multi simulator
As of this writing IndiGO charges 36,500 USD $ for the type rating
Jet Airways has also called non type rated and fresh CPL holders . They too have a policy to call everyone that applies . Unfortunately due to financial issues they have a huge backlog
Candidates who gave the exam in 2011 are waiting to join
Candidates who gave the exam in 2013 are awaiting interviews and final medicals
Candidates who gave the exam in 2014 are still waiting for the written exam results
Its quite unlikely that Jet airways will come with another vacancy unless all the backlogs are cleared
You can read the threads on the pprune regarding Jet Airways and IndiGo to get an idea of the recruitment process
SpiceJet should also be conducting exams for its unpredictable as to what basis they call candidates
Air India after many years recruited some A320 type rated pilots in April this year
They are now expected to come with vacancy for fresh CPL holders sometime later this year
Vistara at the moment is only focusing on experienced pilots
AirAsia too hired only experienced pilots but has now started hiring A320 type rated pilots recently
They should be hiring CPL holders soon as they expand
AirCosta hired fresh CPL holders back in 2013 after charing 35 lakhs for the type rating for the E190
AirPegasus and Trujet hired a mix of type rated and non type rated pilots for the ATR fleet
Alliance Air recently concluded a recruitment for ATR type rated pilots
Flyeasy recruited some CPL holders last year as well . They are in the process of obtaining their final approvals by the DGCA
All in all not a bad time to be in Indian Aviation but please keep in mind that there are still thousands of unemployed pilots in India
So competition for jobs are going to be stiff
So keep studying hard and get that CPL at the earliest
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@CyrilRoy21
You have depicted the scenario of Indian Aviation very brilliantly
It must have taken quite amount of time and effort for a post like this.
Lets hope DGCA/MCA waive off 5/20 rule for the betterment of Indian Aviation soon. Imagine the number of job would it create not only for unemployed pilots but for ground staff as well.
More than one year has passed since new Govt has formed but our Aviation Minister talks about waiving off this stupid rule only verbally not to mention all the reports that are there in the media with title such as - Govt Re-Looking 5/20....5/20 must go.. etc etc
When would this really happen on paper?? Oh wait.... No surprises there
You have depicted the scenario of Indian Aviation very brilliantly
It must have taken quite amount of time and effort for a post like this.
Lets hope DGCA/MCA waive off 5/20 rule for the betterment of Indian Aviation soon. Imagine the number of job would it create not only for unemployed pilots but for ground staff as well.
More than one year has passed since new Govt has formed but our Aviation Minister talks about waiving off this stupid rule only verbally not to mention all the reports that are there in the media with title such as - Govt Re-Looking 5/20....5/20 must go.. etc etc
When would this really happen on paper?? Oh wait.... No surprises there
