PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > Wannabes Forums > South Asia and Far East Wannabes
Forgotten your Username/Password?

South Asia and Far East Wannabes A forum for those applying to Cathay Pacific, Dragonair or any other Hong Kong-based airline or operator. Use this area for both Direct Entry Pilot and Cadet-scheme queries.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 19th Sep 2011, 06:27   #3241 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 46
Posts: 2,503
hkguy

Don’t forget you will also have to pay provisional tax on this, so effectively doubling it. You will though get this back the following year as it is a one off “bonus” for want of a better word. To budget this over 72 months you will need to put aside HK$4600.00 per month on top of your normal budget for tax.

If you are single and earn more than HK1,518,000.00 in the financial year the HKIRD will calculate your income tax at the “Standard Rate” 15% rather than the “Progressive Rate” i.e. tiered rate that has a top marginal tax rate of 17%. You are effectively being charged the lower rate of tax between the two methods.
404 Titan is offline   Reply
Old 19th Sep 2011, 07:46   #3242 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯
Posts: 61
Isn't the Company forgiveable loan HK$ 1.2 Million, of which training cost (depending on which course you are doing) is taken from, and what is left over is given to you as a joining bonus, which is then taxable?

I'm flying off to HK for stage 2 later today and I will ask them, and also report on the situation regarding UK 200 hour integrated flight school graduates who are looking to join the advanced 30 week course, because I personally won't except the 61 week course and start from the beginning all over again, just doesn't make any sense.

Anyone who will be there this week let me know I will be at the Headlands till Thursday if you want to have a chat.

cheers,

Hamid
Hamid_27 is offline   Reply
Old 19th Sep 2011, 09:42   #3243 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 46
Posts: 2,503
Hamid_27
Quote:
Isn't the Company forgiveable loan HK$ 1.2 Million, of which training cost (depending on which course you are doing) is taken from, and what is left over is given to you as a joining bonus, which is then taxable?
If you had to pay back the portion of the loan to pay for your flying training then this would be the case. As the whole loan is forgiven after six years of service then it will be 100% taxable. You have received a benefit in the form of a licence which you haven’t had to pay for directly until the loan given to you by CX is forgiven and that loan then becomes income. Income doesn’t have to be in the form of cash only.

As for the size of the loan I can’t tell you that but considering the Aussie dollar is so high against the HK dollar, I wouldn’t be surprised.
Quote:
I'm flying off to HK for stage 2 later today and I will ask them
Personally I don’t think the interviews would know the answer to the question as they aren’t qualified to tell you. I will say though that it has been brought to our union’s attention that interviews may have been telling applicants that they would upgrade in no more than 18 months. Currently there is about 360 current SO’s waiting for an upgrade. It is impossible to upgrade so many SO’s in 18 months. When the DFO was asked about this by our union he said that all upgrades would be in seniority order and new hire SO’s wouldn’t be jumping the cue. As current upgrades are taking 4 years, it would appear interviewers may have been telling applicants what they wanted to hear in an attempt to dress up the job.
404 Titan is offline   Reply
Old 19th Sep 2011, 11:25   #3244 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Netherlands
Age: 22
Posts: 9
Forgivable Loan

In the Netherlands costs for a flight training would be considered 'negative income'. If you spend 100,000Eur, you can get this back via Tax, so you wont be paying any tax untill you have reached the 100,000 but you would still have to pay the interest.

This system does not exist in Honk Kong I assume ? If it does, Cathay is not paying Anything for your training at all.

Titan, you say you will get the tax back the next year ? So you will get 165.000*2=330.000HKD back ? Or only 165.000 ? How does this work then ? Do you need to earn enough to pay 165.000 in tax that year in order to get it back, or will they just deposit it ?

Wallstreet is offline   Reply
Old 19th Sep 2011, 12:38   #3245 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 46
Posts: 2,503
Wallstreet

You will only get the provisional tax back, i.e. HK$165,000.00. Provisional Tax is tax paid in advanced based on a projection derived from your previous year’s income. Hong Kong doesn’t have a “Pay as you earn” income tax regime where your employer collects your tax on your behalf and pays it to the government. In Hong Kong you pay the tax directly to the government in two yearly instalments, January and April.

Quote:
This system does not exist in Honk Kong I assume ? If it does, Cathay is not paying Anything for your training at all.
No this system doesn't exist in Hong Kong.

If you want to get more information regarding the HK tax system, have a read of the Hong Kong Inland Revenue Department’s web site.

Hong Kong Inland Revenue Department
404 Titan is offline   Reply
Old 19th Sep 2011, 12:50   #3246 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Netherlands
Age: 22
Posts: 9
Ok, Thank you !
Wallstreet is offline   Reply
Old 20th Sep 2011, 22:14   #3247 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 30
I can't see anything other than Icadets upgraded as normal when their turn comes around. The Icadet T's and C's are to lower the cost base of the tech crew group, unless DEFO's are hired on the same contract (or less!) i can't see the reasoning to go and pay more for someone else. The quicker CX upgrades Icadets to FO and CPT the lower the cost base will be.

Can any current Icadet confirm that the 'forgivable loan' is pro rata?
jsmitty01 is offline   Reply
Old 21st Sep 2011, 09:38   #3248 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 46
Posts: 2,503
jsmitty01

If the company was to offer anything but local terms for DEFO’s then their whole argument that the RDO prohibits them paying expat terms & conditions is blown out of the water. So yes DEFO’s when it happens will be on local terms.

Regarding cost of upgrades, one DEFO course is cheaper than one Icadet SO induction course and one JFO upgrade course. The company has done this before because of the significant cost saving factor and also because it is quicker to get qualified bums in the seats.
404 Titan is offline   Reply
Old 21st Sep 2011, 10:03   #3249 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
Posts: 771
...qualified bums in seats - yes, but hardly competent. Oasis et al springs to mind.
Cpt. Underpants is offline   Reply
Old 21st Sep 2011, 16:57   #3250 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: US
Posts: 8
"Do you think the upgrade time will actually increase to 6-8 years ? Carriers all around the world are ordering extra planes, those need to be filled with crews. Yes they might employ DEFO's but when the demand gets high will they not upgrade SO's faster too ? There might be a pilot shortage in the next decadeh

Demand for airline pilots set to soar - USATODAY.com"

This is a very good article and I want to thank you for providing this link. Personally I take these kinds of articles, hyping this so called “pilot shortage” with a grain of salt as I have seen stuff like this for many years. Back in the mid 90’s when I went to Embry-Riddle, their freshman recruiting pamphlets were filled with graphs and projections of how fast the aviation sector would grow and how many pilots the airlines would need. If you read some of this stuff, you would get the sense that all the airlines would need pilots so bad, they would send recruiters to ERAU’s graduation ceremony and “pluck” them as they walk off with a degree.

The reality is, there was never a real “pilot shortage”. It seems something always happened; 9/11, bankruptcies of the big carriers, rise in fuel costs, Lehman, AIG etc etc. I believe there are still a lot of challenges ahead which may not make this “pilot shortage” happen ever. For one, with the military (US) winding down coupled with more use of drone aircraft, they will need less pilots (in cockpit) and hence there will be larger pool of highly qualified pilots coming into the commercial market as the military downsizes. There will be lower growth in the economies of US, Europe and even Asia (to include China and India) in the coming years. IATA just predicted a 29% drop in revenue in global air travel in 2012 due to the global economic slow down. It seems the average consensus from economists believe the US and EU will not recover until 2015 at best. I also believe that in the distant future (maybe next 15-30 years) it maybe very likely we will see the cockpit crew reduced to one from the current two. This may sound outrageous but if you think about it, back just 10 years ago, there were quite a few planes flying around the world with a crew of three, 30 years ago, there were commercial airliners still flying with as many five (pilot, co-pilot, engineer, navigator and radio operator). Also, I am sure eventually the technology you find in military drones, will make its way into civil aircraft just like the many other technology before it (ie fly-by wire). It is amazing what automation can do at the expense of humans. Lastly, there are still pilots on furlough, unemployed pilots and tons of pilots who forked out a pretty penny so they can earn a CPL. Active pilots in US alone, 125,738 have CPL, 144,600 with ATP, I would think that is a large pool of candidates.

Now, this whole China and India and how they will need thousands of aircraft and tens of thousands of pilots a year just to fill those cockpit… The truth is, they can find the pilots they need through their military (like most countries in Asia) and they are sending their own nationals overseas for flight training and building their own flight schools/programs as well. What they will need for the time being are experienced pilots, particularly captains, people with tons of PIC time. I can assure you, once these countries fill their cockpits with the right experience and talent with their own nationals, they will no longer need any expat pilots and the expats will be the first to be let go if there are any downsizing. So basically, unless if you are a mainland Chinese or an Indian or a captain with tons of PIC times, you will not be able to enjoy the boom in their pilot hiring.

So with all this, my conclusion is, although a pilot shortage would be nice, don’t expect it to automatically happen. The airline is a very cyclical industry. In good times, the airlines make billions, but bad times they lose billions. I have a very good friend who worked as a vice president for various departments in Lockheed in past 30 years on some very neat projects (and some highly top secret and he would only give me bits and pieces of info as teaser). He said after the L-1011 flop, they did market analysis to determine if it was feasible to design and market more commercial aircraft. He ordered a study of the airline profitability through a span of a couple of decades and found that the net profit within the time frame for all the major airline was slightly negative. Another words, in simplistic terms, the study added up all the profits and minus all the losses of all major carriers within so many years and found they actually lost money overall, as opposed to many other industries (manufacturing, services, IT etc) that had an overall profit. Keep in mind too that this study was done around early 80’s when airlines had a better margin not the cut throat environment it is now. So even if you do see some signs of a pilot shortage, pilots being hired at a “record” pace, remember, the bad times will come for the airlines like it always has. It is a matter of when, and when it does, this “pilot shortage” will never matter.
USMCMBA is offline   Reply
Old 1st Oct 2011, 23:59   #3251 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Global
Age: 42
Posts: 52
Package for 1500+ ATPL candidate

G'day mate, I was wondering if u could send me the package that was offered to u.

cheers
boxerpilot is offline   Reply
Old 2nd Oct 2011, 00:50   #3252 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
Posts: 771
Us: "The package is sub-standard, unlivable, the CoL is sky high, 4-6 years to FO upgrade, diminishing CoS, belligerent, untrustworthy (mis)management, indentured labour..."

Them: "Sounds GREAT, where do I sign?"
Cpt. Underpants is offline   Reply
Old 2nd Oct 2011, 05:11   #3253 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vancouver
Age: 26
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxerpilot
G'day mate, I was wondering if u could send me the package that was offered to u.

cheers
I'm also interested in the JKI package. If anyone has a copy of it and is willing to share, that would be great!
Sp0r3 is online now   Reply
Old 2nd Oct 2011, 14:24   #3254 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Global
Age: 42
Posts: 52
SQ vs CX

Good evening, I have been following the threads with interest. Pls if anyone is much the wiser, shed some advice on what you would do in my circumstance. I am a military pilot with the Singapore airforce with 2900 Hours on mostly twin jet time as well as have an FAA ATPL. I Have been offered a place with Singapire Airlines on a transition scheme. For starters, I would also like to highlight that SQ requires all cadets to go through C-172,Baron followed by the Mustang in Perth and Maroochydore. Thereafter, there is a current 1 year backlog to get on a B777 simulator to start SO training. Local terms do not provide housing and an FO's salary is approximately 60K HKG dollars. However, it takes us military guys, based on sectors and merit approximately 7yrs to make Captain where pay scales can go up to 100-120K HKG dollars average. Cost of living is similar to HK if not more.
That's why I have been intrigued by what CX has to offer and I have been advised that I would be on the 12 week course in Adelaide based on my license and past experience. With a forgiveable loan, less taxes as well as a SO's salary of 45k per month, it does appear attractive as I am looking for a 20 year career as opposed to jumping ship every 5-10 yrs. I see the risk to be greatest in the time to make command in CX. With 360 SOs, I do not expect to jump the queue and that means 12 yrs to make command whereas SQ is 7 years. Any opinions? thank u.
boxerpilot is offline   Reply
Old 2nd Oct 2011, 14:34   #3255 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Smogsville
Posts: 1,333
Guys doing Command right now are in their 12th year in CX, you better start thinking 15yrs at least, probably more like 20 yrs if you join today.
SMOC is online now   Reply
Old 2nd Oct 2011, 20:23   #3256 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sky
Posts: 349
It is a little bit silence over here.. How are the selections went for those who had those? They would come over to Europe, but nothing seen over here...
captain.weird is offline   Reply
Old 3rd Oct 2011, 13:04   #3257 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: US
Posts: 8
"Us: "The package is sub-standard, unlivable, the CoL is sky high, 4-6 years to FO upgrade, diminishing CoS, belligerent, untrustworthy (mis)management, indentured labour..."

Them: "Sounds GREAT, where do I sign?"


Sub-standard package maybe, but I know of at least 14 million unemployed Americans who would just love to have a job right now. Enough said.
USMCMBA is offline   Reply
Old 5th Oct 2011, 03:26   #3258 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Victoria
Posts: 114
Who do I call?

Does anyone know how I can contact Cathay HR in regards to updating my application? I applied around 9 months ago and in the last 6 months have clocked up a few more hours so I went on the website to update my CV and my log in doesn't work. Went to logde a new app and got a message that one was in the system already. Tried the "forgot user id" tab and another message saying my details didn't exist! Called the numbers but no one ever anwers. Wrote emails but no reply.

Any suggestions?

Cheers
tarmac12 is offline   Reply
Old 5th Oct 2011, 09:18   #3259 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Age: 30
Posts: 18
Post Interview on 15/11 in London

Hi, everybody.
Has anybody been invited for an interview next month? If so we should get in touch and exchange infos and tips.
All the best.
C84
concord84 is offline   Reply
Old 5th Oct 2011, 16:09   #3260 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sky
Posts: 349
Hi concord.. are you 0hr cadet?
captain.weird is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 13:38.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network