Norwegian B737-800 almost stalls at EFKT?
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Complacency vs. Hands on
As a non professional, I wonder whether a manually flown approach every so often wouldn't encourage PF to click/click more quickly. As an occasional passenger on transport aircraft, my expectation is that reversion to a
manual approach shouldn't be a big deal. Sounds from PPrune like SOP forbids (discourages?) this in many companies or am I wrong? Shouldn't this be a routine part of airline flying? If it isn't, not just in simulators but in the aircraft, how certain can we be of good performance when the chips are down? 447?
manual approach shouldn't be a big deal. Sounds from PPrune like SOP forbids (discourages?) this in many companies or am I wrong? Shouldn't this be a routine part of airline flying? If it isn't, not just in simulators but in the aircraft, how certain can we be of good performance when the chips are down? 447?
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Peter - U.S. carriers have fewer restrictions and the overwhelming majority of landings, and approaches, are hand flown as long as the weather is decent(300' and a mile visibility?). No data to back that up except for 30+ yrs of observation and experience.
Departures typically are hand flown until above 10,000' and the A/P is typically turned off below 10,000', and before 3,000', on arrival.
Different work loads and weather, or procedure driven automation requirements, are deciding factors in using a higher, or lower, level of automation.
The restrictive SOP's are typically non U.S. carriers.
Departures typically are hand flown until above 10,000' and the A/P is typically turned off below 10,000', and before 3,000', on arrival.
Different work loads and weather, or procedure driven automation requirements, are deciding factors in using a higher, or lower, level of automation.
The restrictive SOP's are typically non U.S. carriers.
Last edited by misd-agin; 7th Apr 2013 at 15:09. Reason: added "or procedure driven automation requirements"
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misd-agin: "...Disengaging the AP when simple FMC/AP entries would fix the problem is not the goal either."
Making heads-down entries/activations and waiting for A/P response can quickly exasperate flight path deviation.
Too many of today's trained automatons have a complete aversion of disconnecting the automatics; even when exigent circumstances require immediate manual control, they momentarily hesitate in clicking off the A/P & A/T.
Boeing says: "When the automatic systems do not perform as expected, the PF should reduce the level of automation to ensure that proper control of the airplane is maintained. The PF should not attempt to restore higher levels of automation until after aircraft control is assured."
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Glueball - we're in agreement.
Simple FMC fixes, done promptly, should be done while maintaining a higher level of automation. Knowing when to change levels of automation is important. Inappropriate use of levels of automation is painful to watch and is often a factor in incidents/accidents.
Simple FMC fixes, done promptly, should be done while maintaining a higher level of automation. Knowing when to change levels of automation is important. Inappropriate use of levels of automation is painful to watch and is often a factor in incidents/accidents.
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...'Click' 'click' is the fastest way to reestablish direct control of the airplane...
Yes, but it is not easy to explain that to "iPAD generation".
For M609: 90% of air Baltic FOs are western europeans
Yes, but it is not easy to explain that to "iPAD generation".
For M609: 90% of air Baltic FOs are western europeans
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It would seem "children of the magenta line" should be compulsory viewing on any TQ course for any type. I would even add, to all command courses as refresher.
Last edited by RAT 5; 8th Apr 2013 at 16:52.
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If a plane does a low altitude go-around at LHR, I know I will be reading about the poor, terrified passenger´s near death experience and how they were seconds away from certaindisaster.
Where are the big fat shock horror headlines in this case?
Where are the big fat shock horror headlines in this case?
From AIBN:
More, Report on the serious aircraft incident during approach to Kittilä airport in Finland (EFKT) on 26. December 2012 with a Boeing 737-800, LN-DYM, operated by Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA | aibn
During approach to Kittilä (EFKT) in Finland on 26 December 2012, LN-DYM, a Boeing 737-800 NG on Norwegian Air Shuttle's (NAS') air service NAX5630 from Helsinki airport (EFHK), came close to stalling. The outcome of a stall would most likely have been catastrophic, primarily because the elevator system at that time did not function normally. The elevator system worked only at a ratio of 1:250.
AIBN's investigation has uncovered that de-icing fluid had ingressed the tail section and frozen on three or four of the input cranks for the aircraft's two elevator Power Control Units (PCUs) and thus prevented them from functioning as intended.
AIBN's investigation has uncovered that de-icing fluid had ingressed the tail section and frozen on three or four of the input cranks for the aircraft's two elevator Power Control Units (PCUs) and thus prevented them from functioning as intended.
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An oscillating pitch and speed calls for an immediate hands ON(if not already ON) and if there is obvious unstability,the auto flight must be disconnected.
Such issue may be avoided by capturing the glide at the correct altitude....(glide starts at 2500 feet,dont capture it at 6000)..
Such oscillations should be reported by pirep and deviations reported by SRS.
Airlines aware of such deviations should plan extra sim to ascertain such pilots manual skills.
Such issue may be avoided by capturing the glide at the correct altitude....(glide starts at 2500 feet,dont capture it at 6000)..
Such oscillations should be reported by pirep and deviations reported by SRS.
Airlines aware of such deviations should plan extra sim to ascertain such pilots manual skills.
