Since the Tenerife accident phraseology was changed so as to avoid any confusion on the FD as to whether a take-off clearance had been issued or not. As far as I can recollect this also included the PA from FD to c/c to take their seats. [Some companies use chimes and no PA]. I have noted that a particular company I fly with regularly makes the PA using the term "take-off" rather than "departure". The fact that I have heard it on all of their flights would indicate that it's SOP. Purely out of curiousity I'm interested in the opinion of professional FD crews regarding this.
When cleared onto active runway, initiate before take-off checklist.
After the departure briefing, the FO uses the PRAM through the cabin interphone and selecting the T/O pre-determined announcement to CC or by making the announcement him/herself.
Cannot see a problem. Only 'given' when actually cleared for departure/take-off/whatever-you-want-to-call-it and ONLY after receipt of cabin Secure/ready/whatever-you-want-to-call-it and it mirrors the ATC clearance.
Your answer confuses me a little BOAC. ATC does not clear an a/c for "departure". However, I deduce that the "take your seats for take-off" to the c/c would only be used after having received take off clearance from ATC, thus no confusion is in fact possible. Fair enough, that explains it. I was only curious because I have flown on many different operators and only this particular one uses "take off" in its PA call.
BOAC, I think weīre saying the same thing but itīs not a question of what I want to call it. The point I was trying to make is that the words take-off is now only used by ATC when issuing a take-off clearance, and likewise only used by the FD when acknowledging a take-off clearance. In all other instances the word departure is used. ATC use the term departure in all cases with the exception of an actual take-off clearance. I simply thought that the same policy/logic would be applied by airlines in their SOPs and thatīs what sparked off my curiousity.
We say "cabin crew please be seated for take off" prior to receiving a clearance to either take off or even line up. The reasons being, sometimes its a short taxi, large aircraft with lots of pax, 11 cabin crew, busy airports were you get inserted between two landing aircraft etc.
If we did the PA after we got cleared to line up there would be numerous occasions where we occupy the runway waiting for the cabin ready memo forcing go-arounds etc.
I do not think it is inappropriate to use the word take-off on the PA. It is as likely to be misinterpreted by us both, remember its one of the pilots saying it, as it would be to just line up without a clearance. There are no call signs given in the PA, the other pilot can't hear it. It is totally out of context.
I do not think it is inappropriate to use the word take-off on the PA. It is as likely to be misinterpreted by us both, remember its one of the pilots saying it, as it would be to just line up without a clearance. There are no call signs given in the PA, the other pilot can't hear it. It is totally out of context.
Hmm, if you seriously believe that SloppyJoe you could be the next Tenerife! I understand what the OP's point. I wholeheartedly agree and endorse that the words "take off" on the FD should only ever be spoken as readback to the ATC clearance.
Company I work for (UK LoCO) doesn't use anything. Once the cabin manager has given the cabin secure it means that the cabin crew are also seated at their stations. Same also applies for landing.
In BA the "cabin crew seats for take-off" call is made by the CSD/Purser who then reports "cabin secure" to the FD. The flight crew sound the chimes when cleared to line up but do not make an announcement. I can't see a terminology problem here.
Airclues Yes that works in an airline where there is situational awareness amongst the cabin crew. Unfortunately where I work we are required to inform them 4 times prior to landing. Yes 4 times. This is not from flight ops but a requirement passed to us by cabin services after some were still standing during landing. Tail wagging dog? Sobelena The Tenerife accident was a total lack of CRM. If I think the captain is setting thrust prior to receiving a clearance I will call the tower. If I can't get a response and the CN continues despite my protest then my feet are going on the brakes and hands on the thrust levers.
Tenerife was a CRM failure following a misunderstanding because of the ATC phraseology at the time. ATC said "stand-by for take-off". The "stand-by" part was stepped on and only the "take-off" was heard from which the Captain made a wrong assumption and, yes, CRM failed.
