Barely controllable Tu-154 - another UA232
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Zebede, well, that's a good point, easily answered this way - the crew had almost no control, that the plane was basically flying itself in some kind of Dutch roll variant, and they were just hanging on and hoping to time the landing just right between the regular oscillations seen very clearly on the turn to final, so as not to snag a wing.
-drl
-drl
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Just for the record, it did appear on Russian news service RT.
Pilot struggling to control airplane May 1/2011
Pilot struggling to control airplane May 1/2011
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One wonders why they were trying to get this aircraft back into the air?
As to why the mainstream media didn't pick it up - there was no crash and no dead bodies. There were no passengers on board to tell reporters we thought we are all gonna die!!! Most tv viewers would look at this vid and say what's the big deal?
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Interesting how one of the spectators shouts 'yes' in English!
"Fakers" (in reference to "birthers") just think a bit before you post garbage.
It was in the Russian media, more than it would have been a few years back when something like this was simply hushed up. The West press had it in there too, it was even in some TV news here with the footage shown on this and other forums.
And anyhow, why do we have to turn to the press now to verify an incident? We can see it in front of our own eyes, at least 3 differnet movies and photo positions by different people. Do you really think those Russians made a hell of an effort to produce something like that as a fake?
In any event, I hear that Tupolev Design Bureau does not think it is a fake and are on it with quite some effort to clear up what happened. The rumour mill there is talking of rudder problems, unclear yet whether caused by electric or hydraulic failure of sorts.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
It was in the Russian media, more than it would have been a few years back when something like this was simply hushed up. The West press had it in there too, it was even in some TV news here with the footage shown on this and other forums.
And anyhow, why do we have to turn to the press now to verify an incident? We can see it in front of our own eyes, at least 3 differnet movies and photo positions by different people. Do you really think those Russians made a hell of an effort to produce something like that as a fake?
In any event, I hear that Tupolev Design Bureau does not think it is a fake and are on it with quite some effort to clear up what happened. The rumour mill there is talking of rudder problems, unclear yet whether caused by electric or hydraulic failure of sorts.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
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Those who think it is fake need to get a grip. Watch the fly over closely in Video #2. The rudder is clearly making full left/right deflections. You wouldn't do that for fun in a large jet.
It does show the Russian jets are strong - how many Airbus or Boeing aircraft would survive constant full left/right rudder deflections before the tail decided it had enough? I seem to recall the A300 that lost its tail suffered a mere LEFT/RIGHT/LEFT deflection before it failed.
ECAM Actions.
It does show the Russian jets are strong - how many Airbus or Boeing aircraft would survive constant full left/right rudder deflections before the tail decided it had enough? I seem to recall the A300 that lost its tail suffered a mere LEFT/RIGHT/LEFT deflection before it failed.
ECAM Actions.
Last edited by ECAM_Actions; 4th May 2011 at 14:08.
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In any event, I hear that Tupolev Design Bureau does not think it is a fake and are on it with quite some effort to clear up what happened.
I wonder what if any damage the aircraft suffered in this landing? What is the smoke, doesn't look as if it's only rubber burn?
Clearly this incident will have sparked the interest of every single TU 154 operator out of pure self preservation. Sticking the head in the sand and say 'bah, it was a maintenance problem, doesn't concern us' would be pretty stupid. Happened to them and that means it can happen again.
Having said that, I still think the TU154 has proven its design over and over again in such situations. The sheer sturdiness of design has probably saved a lot of lifes during the last 40 odd years, the last ones so far being the ones of this crew.
I'd love to hear what they have to say. I hope they get to tell their tale. It's most probably one every one of us can learn from.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
Clearly this incident will have sparked the interest of every single TU 154 operator out of pure self preservation. Sticking the head in the sand and say 'bah, it was a maintenance problem, doesn't concern us' would be pretty stupid. Happened to them and that means it can happen again.
Having said that, I still think the TU154 has proven its design over and over again in such situations. The sheer sturdiness of design has probably saved a lot of lifes during the last 40 odd years, the last ones so far being the ones of this crew.
I'd love to hear what they have to say. I hope they get to tell their tale. It's most probably one every one of us can learn from.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
really amazing...
I'm surprised they landed with all of those unstable flight path oscillations ....simply astounding...just like UA232...except of course one major difference
I'm surprised they landed with all of those unstable flight path oscillations ....simply astounding...just like UA232...except of course one major difference
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@ Locked door, Post 83
"Interesting how one of the spectators shouts 'yes' in English!"
The exclamation (mine too) after watching all that flying on the ragged edge of departing- and then seeing that safe landing for the first time in the footage above was just the same, in empathy and admiration for that crew:
"Eсть!!"
It's not English, but deeply Russian. Eсть (yest) means "Roger", "Yes Sir" and, in situations like this- it also may be translated as "F*** Yeah!!!"
Literally, it means "It is" or "So it is", but as an interjection there are many nuances of context- emotional, military, naval, and aeronautical. Coincidentally, there is a homonym "eсть" (meaning to eat).
"Anyone able to translate the rest?"
As the 154 was short final, I understood wonder/despair at how she could be landed with such yawing. "давай" (davai) means "come on!" I'm a very rusty non-native Russian speaker, and I'm sure that better translations than I can give are available from fluent Russian linguists here.
Great footage, excellent flying with obviously severe uncommanded flight control deflections (reversed persistent yaw damper or coordination logic?) and a fascinating/harrowing spectacle. Truly an amazing display of airmanship. IMO/BTW any good airplane should be able to be yawed this assertively without the vertical stabilizer failing (Airbus should take note).
Never give up, and always fly the airplane until full stop.
Positive flight control checks before any test flight might be another moral of this story.
"Interesting how one of the spectators shouts 'yes' in English!"
The exclamation (mine too) after watching all that flying on the ragged edge of departing- and then seeing that safe landing for the first time in the footage above was just the same, in empathy and admiration for that crew:
"Eсть!!"
It's not English, but deeply Russian. Eсть (yest) means "Roger", "Yes Sir" and, in situations like this- it also may be translated as "F*** Yeah!!!"
Literally, it means "It is" or "So it is", but as an interjection there are many nuances of context- emotional, military, naval, and aeronautical. Coincidentally, there is a homonym "eсть" (meaning to eat).
"Anyone able to translate the rest?"
As the 154 was short final, I understood wonder/despair at how she could be landed with such yawing. "давай" (davai) means "come on!" I'm a very rusty non-native Russian speaker, and I'm sure that better translations than I can give are available from fluent Russian linguists here.
Great footage, excellent flying with obviously severe uncommanded flight control deflections (reversed persistent yaw damper or coordination logic?) and a fascinating/harrowing spectacle. Truly an amazing display of airmanship. IMO/BTW any good airplane should be able to be yawed this assertively without the vertical stabilizer failing (Airbus should take note).
Never give up, and always fly the airplane until full stop.
Positive flight control checks before any test flight might be another moral of this story.
Last edited by FlyingStarts; 4th May 2011 at 23:46.
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Not in the news so I don't believe it. This would be up there with the Hudson river in terms of skill.
BBC News - Inquiry after Russian plane falters during test
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Well i`m sorry but it must be true, it`s made "Aunty`s" front page 
BBC News - Home
BBC News - Inquiry after Russian plane falters during test
BBC News - Home
BBC News - Inquiry after Russian plane falters during test
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Those guys were remarkable Most pilots from the early jets know how to kill dutch roll, but this was an order of magnitude higher.
Many years ago in an L-1011 simulator, at the end of a re-qual session with 15 minutes to spare, I asked the instructor if he would mind if we took a couple of minutes to see what happened if you ignored Lockheeds prohibition of flap use above FL200.
It was almost identical to the TUs antics. Gyratory oscillations that could not be damped by the usual dutch roll kill procedure. We quickly retracted flaps and resolved that this was indeed a very good restriction.
Many years ago in an L-1011 simulator, at the end of a re-qual session with 15 minutes to spare, I asked the instructor if he would mind if we took a couple of minutes to see what happened if you ignored Lockheeds prohibition of flap use above FL200.
It was almost identical to the TUs antics. Gyratory oscillations that could not be damped by the usual dutch roll kill procedure. We quickly retracted flaps and resolved that this was indeed a very good restriction.
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No control at all?
I was maintenance dipl. eng. in TU154 fleet. This aircraft has the following chain of controls:
From the Control Column mechanically to the upper left end of an ''H'' shaped mechanism witch is ground tied on structure with the lower left leg, the right lower leg is tied to structure through a hydro-electric device named RA-56 controlled by the RESPECTIVE MAIN CHANEL of the CENTRAL STABILIZATION computer (a block on lamps...) it is able to amend until to completely ignore the command from CC or Rudder pedals. From the upper right end of the ''H'' the movement goes to the control piston of the execution hydraulically powered device RP-56 (''R'' stands for rulevoy--->control, ''A'' stands for aftomaticeskyi--->automatic and ''P'' for privod--->device).
There are independently for each ONE OF THE THREE CHANNELS, three independent electro-hydro-mechanical chain of command as described above on each of the three independent hydro&electro systems.
I described the chain of controls, wanting to show that there is mandatory that ALL THIS NINE (3X3) CHANNELS ARE WORKING INTERDEPENDENTLY BUT IN CHAIN meaning that every pearl of the chain IS VITALLY IMPORTANT.
My personal opinion is that a CATASTROPHIC FAILURE in this chain of control has happened.
As Chief of the Technical Crew in OFFICIAL TECHNICAL FLIGHTS authorizing every TU154 in our fleet for normal flights each and every year, we were flying with all RA-56 OFF. At 6000ft with a rudder input, the pilot was able always in~150flts. to control the aircraft back to strait and level flight.
That is the reason why, my opinion, is that the failure was more complex, the A/C in the movie was obviously HARDLY, BALDLY OUT OF CONTROL!!!
Many, many regards to the crew. It is obvious they were pure heroes.
The shots of vodka were of course well greeted and swallowed.
From the Control Column mechanically to the upper left end of an ''H'' shaped mechanism witch is ground tied on structure with the lower left leg, the right lower leg is tied to structure through a hydro-electric device named RA-56 controlled by the RESPECTIVE MAIN CHANEL of the CENTRAL STABILIZATION computer (a block on lamps...) it is able to amend until to completely ignore the command from CC or Rudder pedals. From the upper right end of the ''H'' the movement goes to the control piston of the execution hydraulically powered device RP-56 (''R'' stands for rulevoy--->control, ''A'' stands for aftomaticeskyi--->automatic and ''P'' for privod--->device).
There are independently for each ONE OF THE THREE CHANNELS, three independent electro-hydro-mechanical chain of command as described above on each of the three independent hydro&electro systems.
I described the chain of controls, wanting to show that there is mandatory that ALL THIS NINE (3X3) CHANNELS ARE WORKING INTERDEPENDENTLY BUT IN CHAIN meaning that every pearl of the chain IS VITALLY IMPORTANT.
My personal opinion is that a CATASTROPHIC FAILURE in this chain of control has happened.
As Chief of the Technical Crew in OFFICIAL TECHNICAL FLIGHTS authorizing every TU154 in our fleet for normal flights each and every year, we were flying with all RA-56 OFF. At 6000ft with a rudder input, the pilot was able always in~150flts. to control the aircraft back to strait and level flight.
That is the reason why, my opinion, is that the failure was more complex, the A/C in the movie was obviously HARDLY, BALDLY OUT OF CONTROL!!!
Many, many regards to the crew. It is obvious they were pure heroes.
The shots of vodka were of course well greeted and swallowed.
Yaw Damper,
thanks for your input, highly appreciated.
That was the very first thing going through my mind. Why not switch the channels off? I've switched them often enough to know that it takes no effort at all to do that. The question is, is there any way, with an electrical failure, that the yaw channel would not get that message? That is, remain on, even with the switches off?
I am hearing rumours that a automatic control unit (ABSU) suffered a failure of a connector during take off. Does that ring a bell with you or explain something? I don't have my manuals and they are for the M variant anyhow, but I have trouble identifying that unit off memory.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
thanks for your input, highly appreciated.
That was the very first thing going through my mind. Why not switch the channels off? I've switched them often enough to know that it takes no effort at all to do that. The question is, is there any way, with an electrical failure, that the yaw channel would not get that message? That is, remain on, even with the switches off?
I am hearing rumours that a automatic control unit (ABSU) suffered a failure of a connector during take off. Does that ring a bell with you or explain something? I don't have my manuals and they are for the M variant anyhow, but I have trouble identifying that unit off memory.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
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In the video with Russian voices they don't say anything special.
I heard a lot of
- "Davay-Davay" - come on, come on! /move it! :o)
- "He goes full-loaded"
- "He's got to try to land, no choice"
- "And how will he land, he'll smash"
- "Hold on, boys, just hold it, hold it!"
"Yest'!" - that's not English "yes" :o)) just sounds similar, it is "it is". Like, I AM, he IS, it IS - "it is", in this case.
That's also what Russian military and Navy say to the command, as a reply
"Yest'!" Like, "as good as done!" "will do it, Sir". eh Tovarisch :o)))))0
I heard a lot of
- "Davay-Davay" - come on, come on! /move it! :o)
- "He goes full-loaded"
- "He's got to try to land, no choice"
- "And how will he land, he'll smash"
- "Hold on, boys, just hold it, hold it!"
"Yest'!" - that's not English "yes" :o)) just sounds similar, it is "it is". Like, I AM, he IS, it IS - "it is", in this case.
That's also what Russian military and Navy say to the command, as a reply
"Yest'!" Like, "as good as done!" "will do it, Sir". eh Tovarisch :o)))))0