BA Bomb threats
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BA Bomb threats
Seems BA had a series of Bomb threats aimed at Island destinations, Bermuda , Turks Island and BVI (not sure BA go there)
Not terribly well handled at Bermuda and exposes the problems of widebody aircraft operating to small islands when things go pear shaped.
Full audio recording on Live Atc.com but the crew and the Tower controller left in the lurch by inability of airport to coordinate emergency services and evacuate plane. PAx still on board 30 minutes or more after threat reported to crew by cancelling take off clearance . 20 minutes to get steps to aircraft etc etc
Apologies if this is elsewhere on PP
Not terribly well handled at Bermuda and exposes the problems of widebody aircraft operating to small islands when things go pear shaped.
Full audio recording on Live Atc.com but the crew and the Tower controller left in the lurch by inability of airport to coordinate emergency services and evacuate plane. PAx still on board 30 minutes or more after threat reported to crew by cancelling take off clearance . 20 minutes to get steps to aircraft etc etc
Apologies if this is elsewhere on PP
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Also Anguilla yesterday. It is not directed at BA. It is about 4 men arrested in the Turks and Caicos for having ammunition, someone is demanding their release or threatening bombs in the British Overseas Territories. Yesterday they also threatened all schools in the Turks.
First got news of this earlier via a French language newsfeed...the headline writer had presumably been issued with a shoe horn
Encore un incident sur un avion Boeing : une bombe dans l’appareil
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P icked it up from the Bermuda newspap[er which having lived there I read from time to time.
and yes it seems BA is a bit of a coincidence except that its British and Turks and Caicos was kind of taken back under the colonial wing due t corruption and crime.
What concerned me was the time taken to get people off the plane with the Captain eventually saying if you cannot get the steps here soon we will evacuate by slides
and yes it seems BA is a bit of a coincidence except that its British and Turks and Caicos was kind of taken back under the colonial wing due t corruption and crime.
What concerned me was the time taken to get people off the plane with the Captain eventually saying if you cannot get the steps here soon we will evacuate by slides
Here's the ATC tape - have to say my ex-colleagues did well to keep calm given the long delays in getting info about evacuating the pax. I think the eventual Mayday call was driven by advice fron BA security in LHR to push BDA authorities to action..
The conversation in the cockpit during the long silences from the tower must have been “interesting”.
The BA crew kept their cool as did the controller. The tower must have been an interesting place to be a “fly on the wall” too.
The BA crew kept their cool as did the controller. The tower must have been an interesting place to be a “fly on the wall” too.
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Extraordinary situation , extraordinary measures. Evacuation of the terminal did not help , most probably hindering communications. and coordination . One thing to remember : in this situation ATC is just a communication relay, the decisions and actions are not taken in the tower.
: A lesson on this perhaps : bomb threats handling are fairly standard by now unfortunately , and indeed Fire trucks are to stay away from the aircraft . But placing them , or least one truck in view of the crew is perhaps advisable to confirm to the crew that they are in place in case they are needed.
And we are going back to this very old discussion as to whether Fire services and aircraft crew should have a common frequency to communicate in emergency situations. (Fiercely opposed by most airport authorities until now ) .
: A lesson on this perhaps : bomb threats handling are fairly standard by now unfortunately , and indeed Fire trucks are to stay away from the aircraft . But placing them , or least one truck in view of the crew is perhaps advisable to confirm to the crew that they are in place in case they are needed.
And we are going back to this very old discussion as to whether Fire services and aircraft crew should have a common frequency to communicate in emergency situations. (Fiercely opposed by most airport authorities until now ) .
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I have pondered this problem quite a bit with the benefit of time and no pressure. These situations are often handled poorly with the passengers left at risk to any potential explosion and the crew left in a grey area of confusion. From the left hand seat it would appear that the diffusion of responsibility outside of the cockpit paralyses any decent decision making/decisive action. In the simplest sense; get the passengers & crew away from the hull and luggage to minimise risk. Worry about apprehending a culprit amongst the pax afterwards.
With the above in mind; once we come to a stop at the designated spot I would set a stopwatch and inform the tower/ATC/police chief that I will be evacuating in a calm fashion (not neccessary to stampede off the aircraft, can use the slides with able-bodied pax/crew at the bottom to assist) after 15 minutes. I'd keep them appraised of the time and if steps hadn't arrived at the end of the 15 minutes then open a slide or two and disembark that way. 15 minutes is plenty of time to arrange a set of steps and enough ground personnel to safely herd the passengers on the ramp. 15 minutes is also plenty of time for whoever thinks they are in charge to make a sensible and firm decision.
And if a local plod got their knickers twisted because of that; I'm more than happy to face the consequences AFTER the passengers have been removed from the threat.
With the above in mind; once we come to a stop at the designated spot I would set a stopwatch and inform the tower/ATC/police chief that I will be evacuating in a calm fashion (not neccessary to stampede off the aircraft, can use the slides with able-bodied pax/crew at the bottom to assist) after 15 minutes. I'd keep them appraised of the time and if steps hadn't arrived at the end of the 15 minutes then open a slide or two and disembark that way. 15 minutes is plenty of time to arrange a set of steps and enough ground personnel to safely herd the passengers on the ramp. 15 minutes is also plenty of time for whoever thinks they are in charge to make a sensible and firm decision.
And if a local plod got their knickers twisted because of that; I'm more than happy to face the consequences AFTER the passengers have been removed from the threat.
It isn’t as simple as there are often life changing injuries from evacuations.
‘We had a specific bomb threat in the 70s when the IRA were placing bombs on BEA aircraft serving Ulster. They came through to us after the security services deemed that they were genuine. Depressurised ..returned to Heathrow and sent to a remote parking area near the sewage works. Our slides were far more dangerous than the inflatable slides of today and required two able bodied members to climb down and hold the bottom corners. Not the height of today’s slides but we had killed a steward falling off the air stairs.
It took more than 30 mins to find a volunteer to position stairs to the aircraft.
Sadly management lied to us and I never saw one on a Belfast.
My last airline we had open access to the security, regular briefings if we requested and on my command course had a day being briefed by all the relevant airport authorities including the commandos.
When you take into account some of the mess ups that have taken place recently such as the Manchester bombing along with several other “terrorist” or “nutters” attacks you are doomed if you do and doomed if you don’t.
Never found out whether it was a genuine threat.
‘We had a specific bomb threat in the 70s when the IRA were placing bombs on BEA aircraft serving Ulster. They came through to us after the security services deemed that they were genuine. Depressurised ..returned to Heathrow and sent to a remote parking area near the sewage works. Our slides were far more dangerous than the inflatable slides of today and required two able bodied members to climb down and hold the bottom corners. Not the height of today’s slides but we had killed a steward falling off the air stairs.
It took more than 30 mins to find a volunteer to position stairs to the aircraft.
Sadly management lied to us and I never saw one on a Belfast.
My last airline we had open access to the security, regular briefings if we requested and on my command course had a day being briefed by all the relevant airport authorities including the commandos.
When you take into account some of the mess ups that have taken place recently such as the Manchester bombing along with several other “terrorist” or “nutters” attacks you are doomed if you do and doomed if you don’t.
Never found out whether it was a genuine threat.
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Altho I have an interest in Bermuda side of things this was mostly about the challenges a very small airport faces when confronted by an issue like this.. Do they have anti terror troops/police do they have explosive experts , do they have busses , do they ahve a plan for evacuating a plane and what to do with passengers?
In Bermuda the remote ramp is close to the Tower but not the terminal and the runway is in between the two. The crew , understandably didnt want to stop and remain on the runway as originally suggested and expected to return to the terminal but were left in an isolated area at night which was probably quite frightening for the passengers (and crew) . It got pretty negative press comment in Bermuda but the overall view was that they did need to learn lessons, .
In Bermuda the remote ramp is close to the Tower but not the terminal and the runway is in between the two. The crew , understandably didnt want to stop and remain on the runway as originally suggested and expected to return to the terminal but were left in an isolated area at night which was probably quite frightening for the passengers (and crew) . It got pretty negative press comment in Bermuda but the overall view was that they did need to learn lessons, .
Agreed. As PiC you have to balance the two threats and assess each risk. If the threat of a bomb requires a return to land immediately it’s serious. My QRH for a definite bomb on board leads directly to an evacuation.
With a credible threat there are two possibilities with four outcomes:
Bomb on board & no evac = possible mass loss of life/major casualties
Bomb on board & evac = possible injury to one or two due to evac
No bomb & evac = same as directly above
No bomb & no evac = no loss of life/injuries
Sitting there with a credible threat and just waiting to see what happens seems to me like sticking one’s head in the sand & crossing one’s fingers.
Maybe there should be an internationally accepted procedure for these scenarios?
With a credible threat there are two possibilities with four outcomes:
Bomb on board & no evac = possible mass loss of life/major casualties
Bomb on board & evac = possible injury to one or two due to evac
No bomb & evac = same as directly above
No bomb & no evac = no loss of life/injuries
Sitting there with a credible threat and just waiting to see what happens seems to me like sticking one’s head in the sand & crossing one’s fingers.
Maybe there should be an internationally accepted procedure for these scenarios?
Appreciate you Victor over at VASaviation.
Having listened to this mess, I really feel for the Nigels! You're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
BA were relying on the airport to provide them with the steps for a rapid disembark. But the airport failed them (ATC was just the messenger).
Having listened to this mess, I really feel for the Nigels! You're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
BA were relying on the airport to provide them with the steps for a rapid disembark. But the airport failed them (ATC was just the messenger).
In early 1972 I was positioning crew on a BEA Trident from Malta to Heathrow. Early on in the cruise the crew received a specific bomb threat and the aircraft diverted to Fiumicino. Being an "able bodied" sole I was co-opted into being the first to shin down the canvas slide for the evacuation. Half way down I clearly remembered the safety school advice to "position your body between the fuselage and the slide to prevent damaged knuckles" - alas too late! The canvas slide had rope handholds to enable it to be tensioned at 45 degrees. The evacuation went fairly smoothly until a very large gentleman carrying a ten year old child insisted on coming down the slide. The combined weight was too much for me and my colleague and he landed rather heavily with the child in his lap. Once everyone was safely off the aircraft the process of "wrangling cats" on the runway was pure mayhem with few passengers willing to run away from the aircraft!
Fortunately for the rest of my career I never had to complete an actual passenger evacuation although came close a couple of times.
Fortunately for the rest of my career I never had to complete an actual passenger evacuation although came close a couple of times.
In all the years of "bomb threats" how many have actually found a bomb? I'm sure there have been some but I can't remember any.
And of course, there are the ones where there were bombs but no warning - Prigozhin 's unfortunate end comes to mind
And of course, there are the ones where there were bombs but no warning - Prigozhin 's unfortunate end comes to mind
You won’t ever find out..the BEA report that went into Manchester is still secret..took three searches to find the device under a seat cushion. My one whether true or not was kept secret and when I asked our union rep 40 years on he didn’t know of mine but a mate had one in a checked suitcase in the hold. ELAl one in Zurich although no warning blew the roof off the bomb investigation building, a similar one ex Heathrow was discovered .,pregnant girlfriend of bomber given his suitcase with bomb; shoe bomber. It often depends on what the security services deem as a threat or not and as history shows they can get it wrong.
As a well informed captain and crew you make a decision on all the factors you know, nothing set in stone and is why they get paid a decent salary.
As a well informed captain and crew you make a decision on all the factors you know, nothing set in stone and is why they get paid a decent salary.