AF66 CDG-LAX diverts - uncontained engine failure over Atlantic

[Skywards747]

Originally Posted by megan

Apparently not due pylon and wing damage.

https://www.avweb.com/eletter/archiv...t=email#229785

A 380 Captains take.

https://twitter.com/DaveWallsworth/s...87041278566400

As per Capt. Dave's write-up on the 3-engine ferry, it has to be done on a non-contaminated R/W. So they need to do it soon to avoid the winter ops in Goose Bay where the winter comes early.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by megan

a four-engined ferry is at least as likely

Apparently not due pylon and wing damage.

https://www.avweb.com/eletter/archiv...t=email#229785

A 380 Captains take.

https://twitter.com/DaveWallsworth/s...87041278566400

Nope, both those reports are still based on the conclusions jumped to in that same Reuters article, rather than adding any new facts.

The BA captain's piece, while interesting, is a "what if", based on the a priori assumption that a 3-engined ferry might be necessary.

If there is significant wing damage, that will likely preclude any ferry flight in the short-term, making discussion of how many engines academic.

Let's wait to hear what Air France, Airbus and the regulators say.

[Musician]

The remaining 3 engines on F-HPJE, would they have the emergency inspections done? They're likely to be the same age as the engine that failed, and have experienced the same stresses, but seeing as the aircraft doesn't fit any hangar at Goose bay, is it likely?

The news reports say that Air France plans to fly F-HPJE back to France. What other options are there? Could they target a destination in North America, which would make for a safer flight, but more expenses?

[pax2908]

Will they have a reasonably accurate estimate of the a/c repair costs, before it leaves its current location?

[rouelan]

Originally Posted by WHBM

I presume the pax finally got to LAX on Delta flights about the same time as the following day's A380 from Paris. With no hotac.

In fact, we got to LA way after the 380 It was one of the first thing I noticed on arrival. Out of my head, it took 39 h to make CDG-LAX but glad to be still alive

[atakacs]

Ok probably a provocative thought but what about scrapping the aircraft (after, of course, recovery of all usesable parts such as the 3 remaining engines)?
I understand this is a relatively old hull and the in situ winter repair costs (if there are wing damages for example) might be quite scary.

[Torquelink]

The remaining 3 engines on F-HPJE, would they have the emergency inspections done? They're likely to be the same age as the engine that failed, and have experienced the same stresses, but seeing as the aircraft doesn't fit any hangar at Goose bay, is it likely?

The other three engines each have between 300 and 500 cycles less than the one that failed but I'd be very surprised if they don't have the AD-mandated inspections completed before she departs.

[JW411]

Musician: They're likely to be the same age as the engine that failed.

I think that is unlikely. All operators that I ever flew for had a policy of moving engines around between aircraft so that you don't end up with one aircraft with four new engines and one old dog with four old engines.

[scifi]

Anything happened yet, it's been two weeks since last post.
....

[airseb]

apparently things are moving, an engine having been found at Engine Alliance. Nobody else had any as a spare, mainly due to the fact that in a normal engine damage situation said engine would still be hanging off the wing and the plane could be ferried to main base. Then only the damaged parts would be changed. The problem here is they needed a complete engine (with pylon and all) plus the Antonov to bring it (Antonov has a three or four week waiting list I have heard).
hope they get it out of Goose before the heavy weather starts...

[lomapaseo]

The problem here is they needed a complete engine (with pylon and all) plus the Antonov to bring it (Antonov has a three or four week waiting list I have heard).

Sounds like a big $$$ hit to all involved. Could be that some insurance is involved since the damage is larger than most operators carry on their own.

Does it have to be an Antinov or can an Airbus Guppy handle it?

[scifi]

If you mean one of the Balugas, I think they are all kitted out with Racks to take the pairs of Airbus wings from Broughton.

(The 380 wing sets go by sea, after being loaded on a barge in the river Dee.)

[WHBM]

Are they not on power-by-the-hour, and thus it's Engine Alliance's problem to pay the bills for a replacement ?


Engine Alliance is essentially finished, they have built their last engine, there being no more EA-powered A380s to be built, and presumably the ongoing support falls back to the two owners. Wonder if this sort of situation was fully envisaged in the break up.

[atakacs]

Originally Posted by airseb

plus the Antonov to bring it (Antonov has a three or four week waiting list I have heard).

Not what I hear - they had 8 aircrafts sitting idle at LEI past WE. I'm pretty sure that for the right money that engine could be on it's way Canada within 48h.

[lomapaseo]

Are they not on power-by-the-hour, and thus it's Engine Alliance's problem to pay the bills for a replacement ?

depends on the fine print. Typically the costs associated with operating an airline, e.g. diversions, delays, cancellations and insurance are an operators responsibility.

A manufacturer may use his own experience in associated cost of parts and replacements in the support. I don't know the fine print in a specific contract relating to repair logistics, thus my questions.

anybody got any info on what broke and why? all I know is what's missing

[bvcu]

if you look at their website Air France industries offers customers full support facilities on this engine type so probably in-house.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by atakacs

Not what I hear - they had 8 aircrafts sitting idle at LEI past WE. I'm pretty sure that for the right money that engine could be on it's way Canada within 48h.

I doubt that shipping the replacement engine and pylon is on the critical path (yet).

While removal of what's left of the failed engine is essentially a standard maintenance task, dropping the pylon isn't, and then there's assessment and rectification of any collateral damage to the wing structure.

Only once that's done can the new engine and pylon be installed.

[atakacs]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

I doubt that shipping the replacement engine and pylon is on the critical path (yet).

I certainly agree.

And as mentioned earlier sourcing an actual engine might not be trivial...

Just out of curiosity: is a mixed engine configuration something possible (not for commercial flights obviously but as an ad hoc solution to recover the aircraft)?

[tdracer]

If you mean installing a Rolls engine, it may not even be practical - on most aircraft the interfaces are totally different (I don't have any knowledge of the A380 - there was an attempt at 'plug and play' on the 787 but last I heard it hadn't been certified). Then getting an experimental ferry permit would be a nightmare.
I find it hard to believe that there are not spare GP7000 engines available - the very last thing an engine manufacture wants to do is ground airplanes because there are not sufficient spares. It tends to make the customers look elsewhere next time they are looking to buy. If the EA were planning to cease production, they'd make darn sure adequate spares were available first.

[pax2908]

In your message I understand "things are moving" means an engine was found at EA?
Re. the transport, does your message imply that the accident engine (or what is left of it) is still somewhere at Goose, or ... without the fan attached ... has it left already?

If I recall ... from the 3 engine ferry document ... the core without the fan was one of the allowed configs (?) so then you still need the Antonov to bring that?