Boy, it's noisy in here!
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People can beat their gums speculating all day long, but until the crew's story is published that's all it will be. Was there a pin problem? Was there a 'gear up' problem? I once had it on B757 where the tilt switch failed, but then the trigger solution worked. I've known of at least 3 occasions where the nose gear pin was left in. How? Because the techie had his own pin, he was then distracted, and there were 3 nice shiny pins still in the flight deck. Horrible rainy night so I guess the crew walk round was swift.
There could be a respectable reason for this event. I hope we do hear the truth, but don't hold your breath. Maybe someone has an inside contact?
There could be a respectable reason for this event. I hope we do hear the truth, but don't hold your breath. Maybe someone has an inside contact?
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hmmmm
I find it hard to believe that the pilots would'nt know their gear was extended throughout the flight . On the 737 , we have a landing gear lever will not go up or so checklist with multiple reasons for the same , for example an AirGround Sensor defect . Is the same possible on a 320.
Indian aviation reporting leaves a lot to be desired IMHO so wouldn't trust their sensationalistic reporting . I'm hoping there's more this than what's being presently reported.
As for comments like these from packapoo
Over generalisation of a whole pilot community is not going to help. India is a fast growing market( forecast to be 3rd largest in world by 2020) and there are bound to be teething troubles and growing pains and we need to be extra careful in selection and upgrades and I can see that happening at least in the airline I work at , we need to learn and correct the why's and how's not start a we're better than them debate.
Indian aviation reporting leaves a lot to be desired IMHO so wouldn't trust their sensationalistic reporting . I'm hoping there's more this than what's being presently reported.
As for comments like these from packapoo
Well would seem to be in keeping with their piloting skills
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Forgot the gear was down
An Air India crew forgot to retract the gear, and then had to divert because the fuel was getting low. This is despite the fact that the aircraft could not reach cruising altitude, which might have been a clue.
I have noticed more airlines no longer saying 'up, red lights out' and 'down, three greens'. Which may be a contributary factor. As to the noise, you do get used to it. I had to do a gear down ferry once, and after a while the noise sounded normal.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/ai-plane-flies-with-wheels-out-forced-to-land-early/articleshow/59747345.cms
I have noticed more airlines no longer saying 'up, red lights out' and 'down, three greens'. Which may be a contributary factor. As to the noise, you do get used to it. I had to do a gear down ferry once, and after a while the noise sounded normal.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/ai-plane-flies-with-wheels-out-forced-to-land-early/articleshow/59747345.cms
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Maybe they were both wearing good quality noise cancelling headsets and did not notice anything out of the ordinary
More seriously, a few here seem surprised at the lack of an after takeoff checklist on the A320. They probably have never flown Airbus, for I have no idea what to put in such a checklist that's worth checking.
Flaps? Nope, it's pretty obvious when they're out
Lights? That's pilot's discretion anyway
Packs? Airbus ECAM takes care of that
Baro? That would depend on the airport SID wouldn't it? Anyway, Airbus takes care of that as well with a flashing display.
Gear? Well...
I see no need for a checklist after takeoff, not on an A320.
More seriously, a few here seem surprised at the lack of an after takeoff checklist on the A320. They probably have never flown Airbus, for I have no idea what to put in such a checklist that's worth checking.
Flaps? Nope, it's pretty obvious when they're out
Lights? That's pilot's discretion anyway
Packs? Airbus ECAM takes care of that
Baro? That would depend on the airport SID wouldn't it? Anyway, Airbus takes care of that as well with a flashing display.
Gear? Well...
I see no need for a checklist after takeoff, not on an A320.
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If you fly an aircraft that is designed to tell you wether you have a gear problem or not, then what is the use of such a call out? If the red lights are not out, ECAM will tell you so more reliably than those light bulbs!
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I have noticed more airlines no longer saying 'up, red lights out' and 'down, three greens'. Which may be a contributary factor. As to the noise, you do get used to it. I had to do a gear down ferry once, and after a while the noise sounded normal.
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ECAM will tell you so more reliably than those light bulbs!
Or EFIS
And that is exactly why many of todays pilots are so complement and one screw up away from a major incident. They wait to be told when they've screwed up, and are then on a catch up race. I get that enough at home. At work I like to make my own decision I've screwed up and correct it by my own initiative.
Or EFIS
And that is exactly why many of todays pilots are so complement and one screw up away from a major incident. They wait to be told when they've screwed up, and are then on a catch up race. I get that enough at home. At work I like to make my own decision I've screwed up and correct it by my own initiative.
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After Take-off Checks
Maybe they were both wearing good quality noise cancelling headsets and did not notice anything out of the ordinary
More seriously, a few here seem surprised at the lack of an after takeoff checklist on the A320. They probably have never flown Airbus, for I have no idea what to put in such a checklist that's worth checking.
Flaps? Nope, it's pretty obvious when they're out
Lights? That's pilot's discretion anyway
Packs? Airbus ECAM takes care of that
Baro? That would depend on the airport SID wouldn't it? Anyway, Airbus takes care of that as well with a flashing display.
Gear? Well...
I see no need for a checklist after takeoff, not on an A320.
More seriously, a few here seem surprised at the lack of an after takeoff checklist on the A320. They probably have never flown Airbus, for I have no idea what to put in such a checklist that's worth checking.
Flaps? Nope, it's pretty obvious when they're out
Lights? That's pilot's discretion anyway
Packs? Airbus ECAM takes care of that
Baro? That would depend on the airport SID wouldn't it? Anyway, Airbus takes care of that as well with a flashing display.
Gear? Well...
I see no need for a checklist after takeoff, not on an A320.
Without knowing just what the crew knew, it seems an After Take-off checklist may have been beneficial in this case. Like many other commentators on this thread I find it incomprehensible that the crew did not realize the gear was not retracted. Just how many cues do they need to tell them all is not correct?
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If you are stupid enough not to see the 3 BRIGHT GREEN lights in front of you throughout a 2 hour flight then you are also probably stupid enough not to call for or read correctly a paper checklist.
At my airline there is no After Takeoff, Descent and Approach checklist. No checklists in the air. Everything is done as part of flows and we rely on the ECAM display to spot things that have been missed. It's worked fine for many years. I really don't wish to see this changed for the benefit of a 3rd world, sorry "developing world" airline that hires pilots based on their social class and who they're related to. Thanks
At my airline there is no After Takeoff, Descent and Approach checklist. No checklists in the air. Everything is done as part of flows and we rely on the ECAM display to spot things that have been missed. It's worked fine for many years. I really don't wish to see this changed for the benefit of a 3rd world, sorry "developing world" airline that hires pilots based on their social class and who they're related to. Thanks
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it may sound like a stupid question...
Will the Airbus indicate 3 green if you select gear up but a forgotten pin stops the gear from actually retracting? After all, the unlock actuators have unlocked the gear, so it should no longer indicate 3 green, should it?
Will the Airbus indicate 3 green if you select gear up but a forgotten pin stops the gear from actually retracting? After all, the unlock actuators have unlocked the gear, so it should no longer indicate 3 green, should it?
If memory serves me right, yes the 3 greens will remain, BUT also red light(s) and ECAM warning.
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What about a scenario @ la Hapag Lloyd ? :
1-gear fail to retract for whatever reason.
2-crew talks to OPS which advise continuing at lower speed/alt while problem is investigated
3. Crew is offered to land on alternate en route where : a) technical support is avail , and/or b) another aircraft is avail to ferry the pax to destination.
4)after landing journalist finds out a all female crew and makes a nice juicy story...
That will fits also the " facts " no ? Reacting to media "investigations" is always touchy
1-gear fail to retract for whatever reason.
2-crew talks to OPS which advise continuing at lower speed/alt while problem is investigated
3. Crew is offered to land on alternate en route where : a) technical support is avail , and/or b) another aircraft is avail to ferry the pax to destination.
4)after landing journalist finds out a all female crew and makes a nice juicy story...
That will fits also the " facts " no ? Reacting to media "investigations" is always touchy
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Again I am not a pilot but I can think of a few reasons, none of which involve the pilots actually being negligent. A better question might be, "so why is it being REPORTED the pilots have been 'derostered' ....