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Old 19th May 2017, 09:46   #341 (permalink)
 
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The reason for the ban in the first place.....

"U.S. believes ISIS' bomb-making research includes new generation of explosives

Amid the bombed-out ruins of Mosul University, U.S. officials say they have uncovered evidence that the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) was developing a new type of bomb that could pass through an airport scanner undetected.
CBS News joined Iraqi Special Forces in Mosul just days after the hard-fought battle to recapture the University in January. It's long been believed that Mosul University was the center of the militants' bomb-making projects, using the school's equipment and labs. "


More at....
U.S. believes ISIS' bomb-making research includes new generation of explosives - CBS News
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Old 19th May 2017, 11:53   #342 (permalink)
 
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Ian W thanks and that's interesting. But now that D.J Chump has blown the whistle on the laptop idea, what's to stop ISIS putting this clever new 'undetectable' stuff in pretty well anything a PAX might take on board. And it'd be easier than replumbing a laptop.
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Old 19th May 2017, 19:18   #343 (permalink)
 
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A working explosive is composed of several elements. These elements can be disguised within a laptop, large tablet, etc.

Put them into a box of chocolates or a can of Pringles, they would be very easy to detect.
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Old 19th May 2017, 20:26   #344 (permalink)
 
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What can they detect in checked luggage but not in carry on?
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Old 19th May 2017, 20:34   #345 (permalink)
 
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Not going into specifics but part of the reason for requiring them in checked luggage is not only for detection but also isolation (containment).
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Old 19th May 2017, 23:46   #346 (permalink)
 
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requiring them in checked luggage is not only for detection but also isolation (containment)
Containment from what?

If they go boom as baggage the damage is variable as hell based on location.

If they go boom in the cabin the damage is predictable based on seat location and/or overhead storage which is specific by PNR (boarding pass).

And then there is the fire hazard from a typical LI cheap battery in passenger luggage. In the overhead or cabin it's specific in location and ability to assess and contain. In the baggage hold it's the stuff that causes extreme workload on the flight crew's decisions vs time and distance to an airport.

I'll leave it to the airline safety guys to sort out the pro and cons and costs vs risk avoidance.
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Old 20th May 2017, 00:04   #347 (permalink)
 
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That's an incomplete analysis.

Anyway, the risk assessment was already performed by DHS, and here we are. I'm not privy to anything secret, but knowing some information which have been disclosed, I find the assessment convincing.
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Old 20th May 2017, 02:10   #348 (permalink)
 
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That's an incomplete analysis.
Of course it was, it was meant only to illustrate the reverse side of your earlier post

So, the public has no say in this unless we understand the reasoning. But we are the ones that need to comply
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Old 20th May 2017, 16:23   #349 (permalink)
 
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The Saudis made a 350 billion weapon deal with the US but are not allowed to carry their laptops in the cabin. Must be an interesting risk analysis from the DHS.
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Old 20th May 2017, 16:30   #350 (permalink)
 
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And 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudi citizens.

Point being that the fact that the Saudi Government may have good relationships with the US on some levels doesn't preclude the possibilities of terrorists existing in the country.
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Old 20th May 2017, 16:38   #351 (permalink)
 
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Saudi Arabian airports are not (yet) on the list of airports where laptops are banned.

I wonder if the 110 billion (over 10 years) weapons deal had anything to do with that?
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Old 20th May 2017, 17:52   #352 (permalink)
 
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So where the hell are Jeddah and Riyadh then?
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Old 20th May 2017, 18:38   #353 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExXB View Post
Saudi Arabian airports are not (yet) on the list of airports where laptops are banned.

I wonder if the 110 billion (over 10 years) weapons deal had anything to do with that?
Oh dear Lord😳!!
I'd like to meet your Geography teacher...
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Old 20th May 2017, 19:13   #354 (permalink)
 
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Apologies, Saudi is indeed on the list. Will Mr. Trump's laptop be put in the hold then?
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Old 20th May 2017, 19:58   #355 (permalink)
 
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only if he flies directly back to the US.

No doubt it will get a good scrubbing in the EU countries when he departs from there.
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Old 21st May 2017, 02:23   #356 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by ExXB View Post
Apologies, Saudi is indeed on the list. Will Mr. Trump's laptop be put in the hold then?
He doesn't need a laptop to tweet. 😏
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Old 21st May 2017, 08:27   #357 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
If they go boom in the cabin the damage is predictable based on seat location and/or overhead storage which is specific by PNR (boarding pass).
If they go boom in the cabin the damage is predictable based on exactly where the attacker decides to set it off, which is nothing to do with boarding pass.

A small boom set by a clever attacker in the right place is going to be as big a threat as a large boom placed randomly, and that's before we get onto stuff like shaped charges and really clever placement.

I strongly suspect this is the issue.
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Old 21st May 2017, 11:30   #358 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by edmundronald View Post
This will make Chromebooks and other net-connected empty-shell computers the tool of choice for biz travellers. Rent one or buy a cheap one as soon as you touch down.
Rather, this will result in a massive push towards videonconferencing/telepresence in lieu of business travel.

I've been a management/technology consultant flying weekly for 20 years now, and if this ban were extended to all domestic and international flights, I'd likely either find an alternative to in-person meetings or switch careers if it were not feasible. I haven't checked a bag (save for gate checking carry-ons on puddle jumpers) in years. I keep my timelines from landing to meeting starts pretty tight, and I count on flying time for working. I'm not unique, such a rule would be devastating for business travel.
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Old 21st May 2017, 12:28   #359 (permalink)
 
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There is always an element of business travel that is not really necessary but its hard line to draw between beneficial and essential. There are also events like conferences where most of the attendees dont' actually attend but meet with peers from other companies and do business just because lot of peopel from one industry are in the same place. Ie the conference itself isnt really 'necessary' but its a good opportunity to meet clients and suppliers without doing separate trips.
Video links are usually fine for inside the company work and some external stuff but many cultures like the physical presence bit .

So i can see the rule reducing things but perhaps not by that much, while working on the plane is sometimes a good idea for many a flight is an opportunity to have a rest and serious think which can be a rarity in todays world.

very hard to keep ahead of the bad guys but as I ahave said before it is foolish of the USA to make such restrictions when there is just as much risk from flying domestic US which always seems to have the lowest level of security in spite of being the proven biggest area of risk
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Old 21st May 2017, 15:08   #360 (permalink)
 
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Back to basics

The thread here seems to have drifted to business travellers and their influences.

But can I ask - the professional pilots here have to sit at the sharp end... how comfortable (or otherwise) does the thought of a new type of bomb in a laptop ( or whatever) make them feel?

Yes, there is only a slight chance of it disrupting an individual flight but, as someone once said... "for each flight, it's 50-50 - it either will, or it won't..."
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