Turkish Airlines cargo 747 crashes in Kyrgyzstan
Better tell the FAA quick - they are betting the ranch on ADS-B as a cornerstone of their NextGen ATM strategy. Perhaps it's something that Donald can fix as one of his first tasks ...
As previously alluded to, ADS-B tracking is one of the (many) sources of data that AIBs routinely use in the course of an accident investigation.
Then imagine how this would look if sombody tried to use this data to analyze an accident.
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Not so much censorship as a limit to the discussion based on the information available from local press reports and hobby reception of flight radar data. Some valid theories have been advanced as to the cause, but pointless speculating further until an official accident report appears. Seems reasonable to me.
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From IAC site:
January 20, 2017
January 19, 2017 flight recorders from the Boeing 747-412 TC-MCL airline «myCARGO» (Turkey), crashed at the airport in Bishkek, January 16, 2016 was delivered to the Interstate Aviation Committee.
Received recorders have significant mechanical damage and traces of the extremely high temperatures. Conditions prevent it from reading information conventional way.
Specialists of the Interstate Aviation Committee, together with Turkish experts, the United States and the Kyrgyz Republic performed inspection, opened recorders and removed memory modules from protected storage.
The deciphering of the Flight Data data parametric recorder completed. Information read. Preliminary analysis showed that information about the accident is available.
The reconstruction of the data from voice recorder continues.
The Commission continues to work on the site of the accident. In the work of the Commission participate authorized representatives of the National Committee for Transportation Safety (the NTSB) and the United States Committee on Accident Investigation (KAIK) Turkey, as well as advisors - NTSB experts, FAA, Boeing, KAIK and airlines «myCARGO».
January 20, 2017
January 19, 2017 flight recorders from the Boeing 747-412 TC-MCL airline «myCARGO» (Turkey), crashed at the airport in Bishkek, January 16, 2016 was delivered to the Interstate Aviation Committee.
Received recorders have significant mechanical damage and traces of the extremely high temperatures. Conditions prevent it from reading information conventional way.
Specialists of the Interstate Aviation Committee, together with Turkish experts, the United States and the Kyrgyz Republic performed inspection, opened recorders and removed memory modules from protected storage.
The deciphering of the Flight Data data parametric recorder completed. Information read. Preliminary analysis showed that information about the accident is available.
The reconstruction of the data from voice recorder continues.
The Commission continues to work on the site of the accident. In the work of the Commission participate authorized representatives of the National Committee for Transportation Safety (the NTSB) and the United States Committee on Accident Investigation (KAIK) Turkey, as well as advisors - NTSB experts, FAA, Boeing, KAIK and airlines «myCARGO».
Clearly that has nothing to do with why this one was closed.
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Mea Culpa
I think it was an easy mistake for the media to make who wouldn't know that another airline can operate under a Turkish Airlines flight number. I should have changed the name of the thread to reflect the true position.
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IIRC some governments oblige the marketing carrier to assume liability for loss and damage under international treaties (Warsaw etc./Montreal 99). Although they might try and distance themselves from the operating carrier, they likely remain liable in law for any shipments under their flight code.
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A very simple judgement,
No real news for several days.
Working pilots have abandoned the thread
It is totally overwhelmed by armchair and desk bound accident fiends
All discussion became endless posturing over nonsensical and simply wrong ADSB data points
The wrong data is assigned greater importance than the actual crash tracks and visuals because our accident boffins find data more convincing while these boffinistas tunnel in on patently wrong numbers.
Zero legal threats and zero contact from the ostensible "owners."
Therefore thread killed until there is real news from the initial formal report and the data recorders and the pilots can step in again
Rob
No real news for several days.
Working pilots have abandoned the thread
It is totally overwhelmed by armchair and desk bound accident fiends
All discussion became endless posturing over nonsensical and simply wrong ADSB data points
The wrong data is assigned greater importance than the actual crash tracks and visuals because our accident boffins find data more convincing while these boffinistas tunnel in on patently wrong numbers.
Zero legal threats and zero contact from the ostensible "owners."
Therefore thread killed until there is real news from the initial formal report and the data recorders and the pilots can step in again
Rob
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Manas 747 MAC-IAC update
The Interstate Aviation Committee informs that the Commission on investigation of aviation incident with the aircraft Boeing 747-412F TC-MCL completed the work on the accident site. During the field phase of the investigation, scheme the accident site was drafted with the use of unmanned aircraft. The Commission, including representatives of the National Committee for transport safety (NTSB) of the USA and the Committee on investigation (CAC) of Turkey, reviewed the elements of the aircraft, found on the site, and analyzed their damage to selected parts for future research.
Parts of the aircraft was removed from the scene and stored at the territory of airport Manas (Bishkek). Commission completed analysis of meteorological information.
Together with the specialists from the Kyrgyzstan Republic, the NTSB CAK of the US and Turkey scheduled program of flight-checking landing systems installed at the airport Manas.
The Commission continues data analysis of parametric (FDR) and voice (CVR) recorders, radar data review, tower negotiations.
...
Parts of the aircraft was removed from the scene and stored at the territory of airport Manas (Bishkek). Commission completed analysis of meteorological information.
Together with the specialists from the Kyrgyzstan Republic, the NTSB CAK of the US and Turkey scheduled program of flight-checking landing systems installed at the airport Manas.
The Commission continues data analysis of parametric (FDR) and voice (CVR) recorders, radar data review, tower negotiations.
...
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Paraphrasing from the report, in line with most of the ADS-B data:
According to preliminary information, while conducting a CAT II approach at Manas,
the Boeing 747-412F TC-MCL reached the end of runway 26 at an altitude much higher
than estimated. Continuing descent, the plane flew over the entire runway and touched
down 900m from the far end of the runway 26 (at the end of runway 08) at sunset.
After touch down, the aircraft collided with a concrete fence and rolled into a village,
located 1000m away from the runway, substantially on the runway's extended centerline.
the Boeing 747-412F TC-MCL reached the end of runway 26 at an altitude much higher
than estimated. Continuing descent, the plane flew over the entire runway and touched
down 900m from the far end of the runway 26 (at the end of runway 08) at sunset.
After touch down, the aircraft collided with a concrete fence and rolled into a village,
located 1000m away from the runway, substantially on the runway's extended centerline.
After touch down, the aircraft collided with a concrete fence and rolled into a village, located 1000m away from the runway, substantially on the runway's extended centerline.
That's hard to reconcile with Kulverstukas' second photo, which shows the houses nearest to the runway still intact.
Rather like the Blackbushe biz jet crash last year but on a much bigger scale , too high, too fast on final resulting in touch down way to far down the runway , momentarily airborne at far end of runway but instantly crashed -in that case into cars. In there an earth bank or anything at the end of runway that could punch plane into air momentarily or perhaps a frantic haul back on stick which just got the 747 airborne to skip the boundary fence but with no energy/ momentum /speed to maintain flight and crashing again almost instantaneously
Very sad those pictures, houses remains intact and untouched on one side but the other side of the narrow street houses demolished almost completely and assume occupants killed.
Can you see the untouched car somehow escaping devastation that reaches within a few feet of it.
Very sad those pictures, houses remains intact and untouched on one side but the other side of the narrow street houses demolished almost completely and assume occupants killed.
Can you see the untouched car somehow escaping devastation that reaches within a few feet of it.
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Sure looks that way. From the report, it appears that the aircraft never touched down on the runway at all, it was 900 meters past the far end of runway 26 before it contacted the ground. That would seem to rule out scenarios where a touchdown on the runway caused the autothrottles to declutch due to ground-air sensing prior to an attempted go around.