Aeromexico lands at wrong airport
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Did they get fired for the initial error, or what they did when they realised?
On Apr 5th 2016 Mexico's Pilot Union (ASPA) reported that the flight from Del Norte to International Airport was performed without a flight plan and therefore was illegal. In addition, the flight departed from Del Norte without clearance by Air Traffic Control.
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Performance from a 2,000 M runway will take a few minutes
There is more to performance calculations than just the runway lenght.
If the airport was on their route network, fine.
If not, it would take a lot more than just a few minutes.
DOVE
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Apart from the pilots dismissal which I consider lousy
One more time I fully agree with ManaAdaSystem opinions.
Really? Even if you don't have any performance data for that airport?
There is more to performance calculations than just the runway lenght.
If the airport was on their route network, fine.
If not, it would take a lot more than just a few minutes.]
Regardless of the fuel calculation, weight and balance, flight plan, notams
Maximum take-off weight
Never heard of:
- Brake cooling
- Maximum braking energy
- Minimum Quick Turn around
- Obstacle limitations,
- One eng Out procedure
Fly Safe
One more time I fully agree with ManaAdaSystem opinions.
Performance from a 2,000 M runway will take a few minutes
There is more to performance calculations than just the runway lenght.
If the airport was on their route network, fine.
If not, it would take a lot more than just a few minutes.]
Maximum take-off weight
Never heard of:
- Brake cooling
- Maximum braking energy
- Minimum Quick Turn around
- Obstacle limitations,
- One eng Out procedure
Fly Safe
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"Just culture" won't save them!
Landing at the wrong airport after a visual approach?
Stupid, but under "just culture" perhaps it wouldn't have cost them their jobs.
Taking off ten minutes later?
Now that's REALLY stupid! Getting fired is probably justified!
Stupid, but under "just culture" perhaps it wouldn't have cost them their jobs.
Taking off ten minutes later?
Now that's REALLY stupid! Getting fired is probably justified!
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Captaincy is all about judgement, quality of decision making based upon that. Was this good judgment and a good decision? In a war zone, perhaps; otherwise..........
And that's not including how & why the error in the first place. Remember Nixon got toasted not for the bugging, but the cover up.
And that's not including how & why the error in the first place. Remember Nixon got toasted not for the bugging, but the cover up.
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It is reasonable to assume that this crew had this airport in their performance book (or laptop etc.). If not, I'll agree this data can take ages to obtain. As for quick turnaround and braking cooling factors, I haven't a clue. I don't fly this aircraft therefore they may or may not be a factors. I'm also clueless about flight planning rules in Mexico. So it's fair to say, I don't know much. I am not in possession of all the facts. I'll also not be told about the other niff-naff and pointless trivia that some people think is so necessary for flight. Yes, I know what we need.
So without facts, how can anybody possibility come to the conclusion that this crew should be fired? So my initial annoyance was the "hang'em high" vigilante squad attitude expressed by some posters who had the same lack of information as I had. Furthermore, as I said above, if you want to run an unsafe operation, the quickest and surest way to do so is starve yourself of information and especially bad news. You achieve that by punishing staff who appear to have made an error.
So with that in mind, who do you want to fly with? The airline with the squeaky clean flight safety history and a record of harsh staff treatment or the one with a more interesting history and more humane staff treatment? I certainly know which airlines I'd like my mother-in-law to fly on.
PM
ps. And on what little information we have, probably not the soundest of judgement calls. But I wasn't there.
So without facts, how can anybody possibility come to the conclusion that this crew should be fired? So my initial annoyance was the "hang'em high" vigilante squad attitude expressed by some posters who had the same lack of information as I had. Furthermore, as I said above, if you want to run an unsafe operation, the quickest and surest way to do so is starve yourself of information and especially bad news. You achieve that by punishing staff who appear to have made an error.
So with that in mind, who do you want to fly with? The airline with the squeaky clean flight safety history and a record of harsh staff treatment or the one with a more interesting history and more humane staff treatment? I certainly know which airlines I'd like my mother-in-law to fly on.
PM
ps. And on what little information we have, probably not the soundest of judgement calls. But I wasn't there.
According to the Art. linked in post #21, the 2 airports are MMAN and MMMY.
SkyVector shows a 9 NM distance between them, so my guess is that they simply got confused.
I think they are over-reacting to all this:
Miguel Peláez Lira, titular de la DGAC, informó que las licencias de ambos tripulantes han sido suspendidas temporalmente, y aseguró que después del dictamen arrojado por la investigación, podrían ser suspendidas de manera definitiva;
The pilots could lose their licenses for good.
SkyVector shows a 9 NM distance between them, so my guess is that they simply got confused.
I think they are over-reacting to all this:
Miguel Peláez Lira, titular de la DGAC, informó que las licencias de ambos tripulantes han sido suspendidas temporalmente, y aseguró que después del dictamen arrojado por la investigación, podrían ser suspendidas de manera definitiva;
The pilots could lose their licenses for good.
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I don't understand how a Mexican crew, who normally there are familiar with the Mexican airspace and the Mexican airports, landed in the wrong airport... I'm sure that they fly to Monterrey many times ago in the past, so they should recognize that they was landing in another field... overall doing a Visual APP !
Anyway, I'm really sorry that they can lose their license. Losing the license is one of the nightmares of any pilot.
Cheers
Anyway, I'm really sorry that they can lose their license. Losing the license is one of the nightmares of any pilot.
Cheers
I don't understand how a Mexican crew, who normally there are familiar with the Mexican airspace and the Mexican airports, landed in the wrong airport... I'm sure that they fly to Monterrey many times ago in the past, so they should recognize that they was landing in another field... overall doing a Visual APP !
One by Continental
Continental Grounds Pilots Who Landed at Wrong Airport - latimes
One by Southwest
SW Pilots who landed Airplane at wrong airport have been removed - KiiiTV.com South Texas, Corpus Christi, Coastal Bend
I am pretty sure there are others. I don't think the pilots lost their licenses, but I also think they fessed up.
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And Boeing in a Dreamlifter. It happens a lot there because use of automation and navigation equipment is contemptibly poor airmanship, something only crap Europeans and Asians do... 
That much said, I remember Eirejet landed at a disused ex military station instead of Londonderry, which is also ex military and both had the old triangular layouts, though different orientation and in very different positions relative to the coastline.
That much said, I remember Eirejet landed at a disused ex military station instead of Londonderry, which is also ex military and both had the old triangular layouts, though different orientation and in very different positions relative to the coastline.
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A Saudi 747 landed at the very differently aligned and much smaller military airfield at Tambaram some years ago, when it was widely expected to be landing at Madras..... Hard to see how they managed to get those two mixed up.
The warning remains on the plate to this day.
The warning remains on the plate to this day.
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So many pilots landed at Northolt instead of Heathrow in the bad old days when pilots new the way that they painted NO on top of a nearby gas holder
So I don't think we can blame modern nav systems and pilots for these errors
So I don't think we can blame modern nav systems and pilots for these errors
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Every time we get a wrong airport event (yep, it's happened quite a number of times), all the old stories come out once again. Perhaps there should be a Wrong Airport sticky thread 
Happened in San Juan PR also. 757 inbound for TJSJ (SJU - map lower right) landed at TJIG (map upper left).
Evening, on the ILS, saw some lights......hot brakes, damp seats. Passengers bussed, plane flown out light the next day.
http://sanjuanpuertorico.com/wp-cont...rist-areas.jpg
Crew should have put themselves in "time-out" as soon as they stopped at the first airport - and I wouldn't want to fly with anyone who thinks otherwise. Other than that, I have no comment on discipline and regulatory response, until the facts are better known.
Evening, on the ILS, saw some lights......hot brakes, damp seats. Passengers bussed, plane flown out light the next day.
http://sanjuanpuertorico.com/wp-cont...rist-areas.jpg
Crew should have put themselves in "time-out" as soon as they stopped at the first airport - and I wouldn't want to fly with anyone who thinks otherwise. Other than that, I have no comment on discipline and regulatory response, until the facts are better known.
Crew should have put themselves in "time-out" as soon as they stopped at the first airport - and I wouldn't want to fly with anyone who thinks otherwise. Other than that, I have no comment on discipline and regulatory response, until the facts are better known.
Don’t dig yourself deeper into the mire. Put the park brake on and go off duty.