AA FO Fails Breathalyzer, Arrested
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A crew member reports direct to the plane for duty and other crew have suspicions about his condition , if they suggest he goes sick and he does not then if they know they can report him and he won't lose his job then pressure off just report him , get tested and help . If he will automatically lose his job as he has signed on then will the crew report him ? Or will they circle the wagons and get him to the destination ?
The idea of door closed is a good cut off point .
The idea of door closed is a good cut off point .
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was watching a program on Japanese trains. When the drivers turned up for their shifts part of the process was blowing into a Breathalyser machine
With all the high tech security at Airports I am surprised a cheap device like that is not part of the process for pilots ?
Pace
With all the high tech security at Airports I am surprised a cheap device like that is not part of the process for pilots ?
Pace
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apparently He had such a high level from drinking the night before not the morning of the flight so unless the night before was like 0200 for an 0600 get up time he must have had a skinful
He must have known he was way over and taking such a flight is inexcusable and will have ruined his career.
Alcoholic or serious temporary problem in his life which caused him to do this ?
Maybe a compulsory breathalyser for pilots on a duty checkin would do more than find those unfit for flight but also make the pilots think twice about trying to get away with it and call in sick
The Japanese trains had a fixed breathalyser at the train driver check in point and took about 40 seconds to do
Pace
He must have known he was way over and taking such a flight is inexcusable and will have ruined his career.
Alcoholic or serious temporary problem in his life which caused him to do this ?
Maybe a compulsory breathalyser for pilots on a duty checkin would do more than find those unfit for flight but also make the pilots think twice about trying to get away with it and call in sick
The Japanese trains had a fixed breathalyser at the train driver check in point and took about 40 seconds to do
Pace
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pace- So what that the Japs need/want a breathalizer on their trains. You want to start comparing yourself to a 1st year train engineer or something? And in Japan, no less? I'm sorry, I just don't see the comparison.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what that the Japs need/want a breathalizer on their trains. You want to start comparing yourself to a 1st year train engineer or something?
I'm sorry, I just don't see the comparison.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would have thought a breathalyser tube to blow into at the Crew security checkpoint apart from being a low cost and quick addition to security would save pilots from themselves and save not just the passenger lives but the pilots career.
Its win win all round.
Car drivers take the risk or believe they are under the limit when they are over or think that last nights one drink too much is well out of their system when its not.
Its another day and yesterday was yesterday so I am ok.
The pressure on pilots to turn up for the flight knowing there are 200 PAX waiting to board after a night of doing something stupid. We are human too
Sometimes people need protecting from themselves and knowing there is a compulsory 40 second breath test would have meant that pilot would have called in sick i bet he regrets it now with his career in shreds?
Pace
Its win win all round.
Car drivers take the risk or believe they are under the limit when they are over or think that last nights one drink too much is well out of their system when its not.
Its another day and yesterday was yesterday so I am ok.
The pressure on pilots to turn up for the flight knowing there are 200 PAX waiting to board after a night of doing something stupid. We are human too
Sometimes people need protecting from themselves and knowing there is a compulsory 40 second breath test would have meant that pilot would have called in sick i bet he regrets it now with his career in shreds?
Pace
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: At home
Age: 64
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reporting for duty is the critical issue. I am aware of another incident at this airline where the pilot boarded the aircraft. He lost all his licenses and was terminated. In another situation I heard the story of a pilot who was at the hotel waiting on the crew Van for an early morning departure. His partner showed up smelling like booze and obviously still under the influence. The sober one told his mate, "go back to your room sleep it off and call in sick or I will report you and you will get tested." Once you are on the airport, in uniform with the intention of flying and your name is on the crew manifest you are fair game for a violation.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Once you are on the airport, in uniform with the intention of flying and your name is on the crew manifest you are fair game for a violation.
No jail for US pilot caught in plane over alcohol limit
A US pilot who was over the alcohol limit as he prepared to take off from Heathrow Airport has been given a 10-month suspended jail sentence.
A US pilot who was over the alcohol limit as he prepared to take off from Heathrow Airport has been given a 10-month suspended jail sentence.
Heathrow pilot caught drunk at 9am about to fly to America is spared jail
A pilot who was three times over the alcohol limit in the cockpit of a Boeing 747 at Heathrow was spared jail yesterday after pleas from his bosses.
A pilot who was three times over the alcohol limit in the cockpit of a Boeing 747 at Heathrow was spared jail yesterday after pleas from his bosses.
Captain Joseph C******, 57, said the unfamiliar tipple was stronger than alcoholic beverages he usually drank and he did not realise it would put him over the limit when he turned up at Heathrow the next morning.
..."One doesn't know how that alcohol will affect someone if something unexpected happens. As you ought to know, it could have catastrophic results.
"For that reason the courts always take a dim view of this offence. Usually the sentence is one of imprisonment."
The judge said because of his distinguished track record and glowing references from colleagues, he would instead impose a fine of £1,500, with £300 costs.
..."One doesn't know how that alcohol will affect someone if something unexpected happens. As you ought to know, it could have catastrophic results.
"For that reason the courts always take a dim view of this offence. Usually the sentence is one of imprisonment."
The judge said because of his distinguished track record and glowing references from colleagues, he would instead impose a fine of £1,500, with £300 costs.
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After the Northwest Airlines drunk pilots episode in 1990, I resolved to never take a drink while on a trip. I had some brown water waiting for me at home if I wanted it.
This AA pilot might get his job back but it will be a long row to hoe.
This AA pilot might get his job back but it will be a long row to hoe.
Its not just in the Northern Hemisphere. A good lesson for anyone who drinks the day before operating:
Virgin pilot found over the limit before commercial flight loses appeal
Virgin pilot found over the limit before commercial flight loses appeal
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting to note the differences in the degree of recall between the two in the above cases...
VA:
and
Whereas the AA pilot
I wonder how the Australian argument would have gone down in the English court?
VA:
The pilot would give evidence that he'd had two vodka, lime and sodas, shared a bottle of red wine, and another three glasses of wine, before going to bed at 10pm the night before.
The pilot....argued that the amount he drank was not capable of giving such a high reading the next morning.
"....did have some drinks, but the only thing he can suggest to explain this is that he had some unfamiliar beers, which were stronger than those he was used to.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Interesting to note the differences in the degree of recall between the two in the above cases...
Earlier, the jury was told that he had left the Renaissance Hotel in Manchester for a seven-hour drinking session with his two fellow pilots. He had drunk pints in at least four pubs before retiring for a Scotch in the hotel bar.
Around midnight, he swallowed a sedative to help him to sleep. When he woke up the next morning, after 9am, he could hear his captain banging on the hotel door. He noticed that about a third of the Irish whiskey he had bought the previous day had been consumed, but he had no memory of drinking it.
Around midnight, he swallowed a sedative to help him to sleep. When he woke up the next morning, after 9am, he could hear his captain banging on the hotel door. He noticed that about a third of the Irish whiskey he had bought the previous day had been consumed, but he had no memory of drinking it.
He successfully convinced the Minshull Street Crown Court jury that he had showed up at the airport drunk in full uniform only to tell the captain that he was unfit for duty and that he had no intent to operate the flight to ORD. As noted elsewhere in this thread, this 'we didn't know we wuz gonna fly' defense no longer works very well in the U.S.
"Depend upon it, Sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully."
Originally Posted by core dump
Pace- So what that the Japs need/want a breathalizer on their trains. You want to start comparing yourself to a 1st year train engineer or something? And in Japan, no less? I'm sorry, I just don't see the comparison.
Having been driving trains for over 10 years now (much better pay than most pilots in Oz...), I have been tested in the middle of the Australian scrub (Merrywinebone, for those who know it), been driven straight to the testing facility after stepping off a train as part of a random test, and been tested more times than I can remember as part of the sign-on process, again, all random tests that I am fully supportive of.
I - and all but a tiny percentage of my colleagues - have no problem with, and would actively support and encourage, the testing of each Driver before signon, and the immediate sacking for anyone that fails. It is well known and an accepted part of the job that you are AOD free at work, and there is plenty of support for those that need it. The risks of a subtle impairment putting a Shunter or another Driver at risk are worth such a hard-line stance, IMHO, and while the number of people that might potentially fail is quite small, we operate with no FO to watch over our actions.
For this reason, I can't understand any transport professional, be it a train driver, ferry skipper or airline pilot that would have an issue with such testing. Unless you yourself are prepared to risk rocking up to work after a night out with the lads, what is the issue? And if you are such a person, feel free to not be the one crewing my flights...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 76
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A DWI (Driving While Impaired) along with certain other driving convictions can easily lead to the loss of your FAA license. You don't need to go anywhere close to an airport for that to happen.
There's a box on the medical application that asks specifically if you have been convicted of a DWI, although it may not be phrased in quite that way.
It's a real nightmare, being a pilot with a DWI, when you are definitely out of business for quite some time. There's a real gotcha in that you essentially are required to turn yourself in to the FAA for a DWI. If you do not then there's this federal database that tracks DWIs (and certain other offenses such as doing 150 mph in a school zone) that will, sooner or later, link you the pilot to you the drunk driver.
It's a brave man who drinks before he drives or flies nowadays. You are always gambling when you drink, gambling with whatever rate your liver is able to burn off the alcohol and how much alcohol you have imbibed, along with the odd fact that many people will have a tiny amount of alcohol in the bloodstream anyway. You can be walking around with .001% BAC just for starters!
It's no excuse, but it's quite true that knocking back a few pints of real British ale could put you over the limit where the same amount of what passes for beer in the States, perhaps just 3.2% alcohol, would not.
There's a box on the medical application that asks specifically if you have been convicted of a DWI, although it may not be phrased in quite that way.
It's a real nightmare, being a pilot with a DWI, when you are definitely out of business for quite some time. There's a real gotcha in that you essentially are required to turn yourself in to the FAA for a DWI. If you do not then there's this federal database that tracks DWIs (and certain other offenses such as doing 150 mph in a school zone) that will, sooner or later, link you the pilot to you the drunk driver.
It's a brave man who drinks before he drives or flies nowadays. You are always gambling when you drink, gambling with whatever rate your liver is able to burn off the alcohol and how much alcohol you have imbibed, along with the odd fact that many people will have a tiny amount of alcohol in the bloodstream anyway. You can be walking around with .001% BAC just for starters!
It's no excuse, but it's quite true that knocking back a few pints of real British ale could put you over the limit where the same amount of what passes for beer in the States, perhaps just 3.2% alcohol, would not.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilots have problems like anyone else and have to also be protected from themselves.
The Japanese railway requirement of a breath test on signing on would do just that!
A pilot who had been on the binge the night before for whatever reason would call in sick rather than try to get away with it if he had to blow into a machine
It would save his job from a stupid decision mistake as well as maybe a plane load of passengers so win win all around and the cost a 30 second blow
Pace
The Japanese railway requirement of a breath test on signing on would do just that!
A pilot who had been on the binge the night before for whatever reason would call in sick rather than try to get away with it if he had to blow into a machine
It would save his job from a stupid decision mistake as well as maybe a plane load of passengers so win win all around and the cost a 30 second blow
Pace
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And all this to solve what exactly? How many loss of life accidents are caused by alcohol in airlines? Zero.
Yet we tolerate drunk car drivers - I don't see you demanding alcohol interlocks on all motor vehicles, and they are responsible for thousands of deaths per month.
It's usually a good idea to actually identify a problem before you go to great lengths insulting the professionalism of airline pilots every day they turn up for work.
Oh, hang on a minute, we have... It's called fatigue. What are we doing about it? Nothing.
Yet we tolerate drunk car drivers - I don't see you demanding alcohol interlocks on all motor vehicles, and they are responsible for thousands of deaths per month.
It's usually a good idea to actually identify a problem before you go to great lengths insulting the professionalism of airline pilots every day they turn up for work.
Oh, hang on a minute, we have... It's called fatigue. What are we doing about it? Nothing.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: australia
Age: 81
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts