Allegiant fires pilot after ordering an emergency evacuation
I'm not a qualified pilot but if I sensed an evacuation was necessary and some unidentifiable person told me to hold off or not evacuate, I'd be backing my original judgement that evacuation is necessary if that person did not identify themselves within seconds.
Even if they did identify themselves and give a reasonable explanation, if I still thought evacuation was necessary I'd still back my judgement to do so (fire, smoke or fumes not visible to those outside the aircraft).
At the end of the day the Captain holds responsibility for the souls on board and the aircraft and the decision rests with them to make the best call they see warranted.
Injuries in an evacuation are unfortunate but a better result than a mass cremation.
Airlines need to back their technical crew to back their pilots in emergency, high pressure situations.
One day we will have cockpit and cabin CCTV fed back to the black boxes and a Captain not proactive could well see themselves to blame for lack of evacuation due to management and bean counter reprisal whilst not being around (along with pax) to even defend themselves in an investigation.
It's the Captain's responsibility to ensure the safety of their flight. It's management's responsibility to ensure the safety culture of an airline is first and foremost.
Even if they did identify themselves and give a reasonable explanation, if I still thought evacuation was necessary I'd still back my judgement to do so (fire, smoke or fumes not visible to those outside the aircraft).
At the end of the day the Captain holds responsibility for the souls on board and the aircraft and the decision rests with them to make the best call they see warranted.
Injuries in an evacuation are unfortunate but a better result than a mass cremation.
Airlines need to back their technical crew to back their pilots in emergency, high pressure situations.
One day we will have cockpit and cabin CCTV fed back to the black boxes and a Captain not proactive could well see themselves to blame for lack of evacuation due to management and bean counter reprisal whilst not being around (along with pax) to even defend themselves in an investigation.
It's the Captain's responsibility to ensure the safety of their flight. It's management's responsibility to ensure the safety culture of an airline is first and foremost.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilot fired for doing his job
Lucky him, he's in the states and can easily exercise his legal rights. If he was flying for a low-cost carrier in Europe, he would be wasting his time (LOTS of time, and money) trying to sue the airline for firing him.
It’s my opinion that Capt. Kinzer was terminated to quell the pilot group, to silence the pilot group, to in a way ‘take one out’ to keep the pilots from reporting safety events, emergencies, those types of events.”
This is the problem pilots need to stick together,and grow some balls,but I can only dream.
This is the problem pilots need to stick together,and grow some balls,but I can only dream.
It is not clear that Capt. Kinzer is getting any help from his fellow pilots.
He is posting in the comments to the Washington Star article linked by 'pcpmitch' and seems to be quite alone. That suggests Allegiant has little reason to worry about their pilots forming a group.
He is posting in the comments to the Washington Star article linked by 'pcpmitch' and seems to be quite alone. That suggests Allegiant has little reason to worry about their pilots forming a group.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The FAA would be reluctant to be seen as "meddling" in what's considered a civil employment case. However, the FAA responded by moving up a comprehensive audit of Allegiant's operations (CHEP audit) after this incident and others.
Allegiant's next CHEP audit wasn't due until 2018. Instead, FAA gave Allegiant an audit notice in March and FAA auditors were at Allegiant for three months from April through June of this year.
Allegiant passed the audit with only minor issues flagged and no enforcement actions required. Some of the issues were really minor like one training room apparently had its AC temperature set too low that it was found to be distracting. Allegiant had until this past Friday to address the issues and apparently they did so.
I can't speak for Allegiant pilots, but note that after a tough period they have just won their first union contract (CBA) including up to 30% pay raise and promised improvements to safety processes + culture.
Allegiant is also replacing their aging MD-80s and moving to an all-Airbus fleet by 2019. They recently placed an order for 12 brand new A320neos -- the first time in history they've purchased new aircraft.
So I think Allegiant pilots (now among the best paid in the industry) have room for optimism. They used safety as a "stick" during the contract process and now that concessions have been made it would not be in their benefit to criticize.
If I recall it was noted previously in this thread that Capt. Kinzer's suit was filed without involvement from Allegiant's union (Teamsters).
Allegiant's next CHEP audit wasn't due until 2018. Instead, FAA gave Allegiant an audit notice in March and FAA auditors were at Allegiant for three months from April through June of this year.
Allegiant passed the audit with only minor issues flagged and no enforcement actions required. Some of the issues were really minor like one training room apparently had its AC temperature set too low that it was found to be distracting. Allegiant had until this past Friday to address the issues and apparently they did so.
I can't speak for Allegiant pilots, but note that after a tough period they have just won their first union contract (CBA) including up to 30% pay raise and promised improvements to safety processes + culture.
Allegiant is also replacing their aging MD-80s and moving to an all-Airbus fleet by 2019. They recently placed an order for 12 brand new A320neos -- the first time in history they've purchased new aircraft.
So I think Allegiant pilots (now among the best paid in the industry) have room for optimism. They used safety as a "stick" during the contract process and now that concessions have been made it would not be in their benefit to criticize.
If I recall it was noted previously in this thread that Capt. Kinzer's suit was filed without involvement from Allegiant's union (Teamsters).
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
The Tampa Bay Times has published another hit piece on Allegiant Air.
In true tabloid tradition it starts:
Thousands of people flew Allegiant thinking their planes wouldn't fail. They were wrong. | investigations | Tampa Bay Times
In true tabloid tradition it starts:
BREAKDOWN AT 30,000 FEET
Nov. 2, 2016
By NATHANIEL LASH, WILLIAM R. LEVESQUE and ANTHONY CORMIER
Times Staff Writers
Lisa Cozzolino started to panic as Allegiant Air Flight 844 circled over Pinellas County, burning off fuel for an emergency landing. “All the bad things I’ve done in my life,” she said to her sister, “and now I’m going to die.”
Matt Jones fumbled with his cellphone, trying to call his wife to say goodbye, as crew members on Allegiant Flight 822 ordered him to tuck into crash position over Baltimore. “I said to myself, ‘I’m never going to see my wife or my kids or my grandkids again,’” he recalled.
Jessica Stoffel was so afraid on Allegiant Flight 175 over Mesa, Ariz., that she grabbed the stranger next to her and squeezed his hand. “I was terrified and honestly did not think we were going to make it,” she said.
Nov. 2, 2016
By NATHANIEL LASH, WILLIAM R. LEVESQUE and ANTHONY CORMIER
Times Staff Writers
Lisa Cozzolino started to panic as Allegiant Air Flight 844 circled over Pinellas County, burning off fuel for an emergency landing. “All the bad things I’ve done in my life,” she said to her sister, “and now I’m going to die.”
Matt Jones fumbled with his cellphone, trying to call his wife to say goodbye, as crew members on Allegiant Flight 822 ordered him to tuck into crash position over Baltimore. “I said to myself, ‘I’m never going to see my wife or my kids or my grandkids again,’” he recalled.
Jessica Stoffel was so afraid on Allegiant Flight 175 over Mesa, Ariz., that she grabbed the stranger next to her and squeezed his hand. “I was terrified and honestly did not think we were going to make it,” she said.
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Escaped the sandpit 53° 32′ 9.19″ N, 9° 50′ 13.29″ E
Posts: 591
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Allegiant Air changes course after Times investigation, admits too many planes failed | Tampa Bay Times
A mea culpa from Maurice....
A mea culpa from Maurice....
"I can look at what we did (in 2015) and it wasn't acceptable," Allegiant CEO Maurice Gallagher Jr. said in an Oct. 26 interview at the company's Las Vegas headquarters. "I don't disagree with the thrust of your numbers. ... We want to be well known as being reliable and on time, and obviously safe, and that's an important part of our brand. And we're going to make sure we do those things. But if you stub your toe, step up and own it and move on."
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The case is now inching closer to a jury trial, scheduled to start on July 31, 2017 -- more than two years since the date of this incident.
It appears that the Captain's legal team wanted to depose Maurice Gallagher Jr. (CEO). Allegiant filed a motion to protect. For now the CEO is not required to provide a deposition unless there's evidence that he was involved / had the final say in the Captain's firing.
It appears that the Captain's legal team wanted to depose Maurice Gallagher Jr. (CEO). Allegiant filed a motion to protect. For now the CEO is not required to provide a deposition unless there's evidence that he was involved / had the final say in the Captain's firing.
Unfortunately, there will be no trial. Allegiant has reached a settlement agreement with Captain Kinzer. I’m happy for him but would like to have seen their management get the public tongue lashing they so richly deserve.
https://lawandcrime.com/ross-investi...h-airline/amp/
https://lawandcrime.com/ross-investi...h-airline/amp/
