Aer Lingus flight EI110 makes emergency landing in JFK
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Aer Lingus flight EI110 makes emergency landing in JFK
Failure of hydraulic system forces Aer Lingus 757 to return to JFK after departure. No reports of injuries. Brake fire extinguished after emergency landing.
Print report: Aer Lingus plane makes emergency landing at JFK · TheJournal.ie
Print report: Aer Lingus plane makes emergency landing at JFK · TheJournal.ie
Last edited by Mark in CA; 29th Sep 2015 at 11:11. Reason: Video link no longer available.
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Reports that it was a single hydraulic system failure yet reported that it landed sans flaps extended
Not a professional but thought it would need to be dual system failure for that to occur?
Not a professional but thought it would need to be dual system failure for that to occur?
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Listening to the ATC recording, tea and biscuits all round.
Really calm and professional all round. Crew were not rushed and kept everone informed. ATC supported as required.
Reassuring.
Really calm and professional all round. Crew were not rushed and kept everone informed. ATC supported as required.
Reassuring.
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Really calm and professional all round. Crew were not rushed and kept everone informed. ATC supported as required.
The loss of a single hydraulic amongst 3 systems is not an emergency!
The recent thinking, under U.S. regs anyway, is that it gives you carte blanche with whatever decisions you make as PIC. And it's CYA for stuff like landing back at JFK without getting re-dispatched.
Of course, if you have time and remember, you get on the sat phone and have a big group think with all the geniuses on the ground back at headquarters (kinda like PPRuNe, come to think of it ). But, if they give advice that is later found to be wrong and you believed it, it was your fault because you trusted them. I had a colleague on the sat phone with maintenance pop and reset a circuit breaker in flight that fixed a problem only to find out afterward that the feds were hopping mad because the procedure was not listed in the AOM.
Reports that it was a single hydraulic system failure yet reported that it landed sans flaps extended
Not a professional but thought it would need to be dual system failure for that to occur?
Not a professional but thought it would need to be dual system failure for that to occur?
In years past I've seen it debated here and elsewhere but loss of a major hydraulic system prior to a crossing almost always means you are turning back in an ETOPS plane in my opinion.
The old argument would have been that you don't really need the left hydraulic system on the 757 until you land and then you're going to have to use alternate systems to lower the gear and flaps anyway so you might as well do it on the other side of the pond.
But, you usually don't know what other systems, if any, were damaged by the event that caused the loss of hydraulics so not making the crossing is a very wise move in my view.
In this Aer Lingus case, I suspect some flaps were still extended and locked from moving by an asymmetry so the no-go decision was a done deal.
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About the only thing I would have done differently is to declare an emergency.
The recent thinking, under U.S. regs anyway, is that it gives you carte blanche with whatever decisions you make as PIC. And it's CYA for stuff like landing back at JFK without getting re-dispatched.
I understand the CYA stuff...but seriously, if someone would give them a hard time for returning to JFK without getting re-dispatched, they need to get their heads checked. Decades ago I was taught that declaring an emergency means "grave and imminent danger to the aircraft or lives", and that tying up scarce resources is not a good practice if there is no such grave and imminent danger. But maybe I'm naive.
The recent thinking, under U.S. regs anyway, is that it gives you carte blanche with whatever decisions you make as PIC. And it's CYA for stuff like landing back at JFK without getting re-dispatched.
I understand the CYA stuff...but seriously, if someone would give them a hard time for returning to JFK without getting re-dispatched, they need to get their heads checked. Decades ago I was taught that declaring an emergency means "grave and imminent danger to the aircraft or lives", and that tying up scarce resources is not a good practice if there is no such grave and imminent danger. But maybe I'm naive.
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RAT's and PTU's are backup sources of power for hydraulics. If that's what the poster meant that's fine. If he believes there's backup systems for the loss of hydraulics he's in for a big surprise.
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Cripes, here we go again. Yes, Mayday is "Save our souls" ; Pan Pan Pan is a state of urgency. One out of three hydraulics failing is not, in itself, a state of "Emergency". Sounds like there were other failures going on that led the guys to elect for an immediate return , declaring a mayday, preparing for overweight landing & limited braking. A single hydraulic failure, out of three, in itself would have me run the check-list and then ask the Senior Cabin attendant what's for Dinner .
I think the A380 has hydraulic power pack actuators which are independent of the main central hydraulic systems. I think the VC10 and Vulcan were leaders in this field.
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PTU
Re PTU’s etc in post #17. Certainly on the 75, the purpose of the PTU is to drive some remnants of the main (L) system in the event of a L Hyd loss of contents (Flaps, gear, nose wheel steering and, for ETOPS, a hyd gen). The trick, of course, is to know where the actual leak has occurred. If it is above the stack pipe, the PTU will operate as per the tin, but if it is below it, then “Misd-agin’s” comment about a surprise is nearer the mark. However, there is one fairly big clue as to where the leak might lie, thus obviating any surprises later on.
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You don't have to get "re-dispatched" for a diversion, ATB, or emergency.
I'll agree that you don't have to be re-dispatched to proceed to a listed alternate for weather.
I understand the CYA stuff...but seriously, if someone would give them a hard time for returning to JFK without getting re-dispatched, they need to get their heads checked. Decades ago I was taught that declaring an emergency means "grave and imminent danger to the aircraft or lives", and that tying up scarce resources is not a good practice if there is no such grave and imminent danger. But maybe I'm naive.
Here's a reference:
§ 121.557 Emergencies: Domestic and flag operations.
(a) In an emergency situation that requires immediate decision and action the pilot in command may take any action that he considers necessary under the circumstances. In such a case he may deviate from prescribed operations procedures and methods, weather minimums, and this chapter, to the extent required in the interests of safety.
(a) In an emergency situation that requires immediate decision and action the pilot in command may take any action that he considers necessary under the circumstances. In such a case he may deviate from prescribed operations procedures and methods, weather minimums, and this chapter, to the extent required in the interests of safety.
A single hydraulic failure, out of three, in itself would have me run the check-list and then ask the Senior Cabin attendant what's for Dinner .
I realize that the Aer Lingus wet lease was not operated under an FAA certificate and there may have been some incentive not to declare an emergency under their operating rules.
But yes, I would have declared an emergency in this case. At least the trucks were already there to quickly put out the wheel fire on landing.