Stowaway on BA

[IFIX]

These events do not happen only in africa or under educated countries.

Dead teen found in plane wheel well

There was not a mark on him, but he had frozen solid.

[MTOW]

Years ago on a 707 at Lagos people opened a hold of the aircraft, not in order to stow away, but to steal the luggage and freight;

Years ago? When I operated into that Godawful place only a few years ago, a security van with armed police had to follow each aircraft out to the threshold to stop the gangs of thieves from opening the aircraft holds as it taxied out for departure and throwing the baggage out onto the ground.

[Above The Clouds]

To help change the minds of these idiots a new SOP is required once in the cruise, this new procedure should be widely advertised in the public domain.

Gear down, wait 3 minutes, gear up.

[Load Toad]

You think the people that do this are going to be reading such...?

[gcal]

I very much doubt it.

[Airbubba]

To help change the minds of these idiots a new SOP is required once in the cruise, this new procedure should be widely advertised in the public domain.

Gear down, wait 3 minutes, gear up.

Narita has a gear down prior to the coastline procedure when landing to the north.

Supposedly it is for 'ice blocks' but I've been told by our station manager that it was instituted years ago after several stowaways were dropped on densely populated areas under the approach path as the gear came down.

When landing to the south at NRT you fly mostly over woods, agriculture and golf courses.

[misd-agin]

Standard temp at FL370 is -57C. 2C warmer for every 1000' lower.
Std at FL350 would be -53C.

It's not uncommon to have ISA+10(-43C) at altitude.

Slightly warmer then ISA+10 is not unusual but warmer than ISA+15 in the mid 30's would be uncommon.

Many jets have tire temperature displays. My recolllection is that the tires typically are not below 0 Celsius during cruise so they might be adding a slight temperature modulating effect to the wheel well temperature.

[sb_sfo]

Above the clouds,


Your outfit got a lot of spare gear doors in stock?

[Chronus]

The Ancient Greek`s post no 24 does have a point. The stowaways must have been a pair of Yetis seeking asylum for fear of a real threat to their lives under the unbearable hot and humid conditions of Africa. Expect medical examination will soon confirm this and support the survivors lawyers application for permanent leave to stay in the UK.

[Pace]

Not very tasteful but a real threat is one of the bodies jamming the gear extension and causing the aircraft to land minus the nose gear. That is a threat to the aircraft and PAX.

So far the bodies have fallen clear but that does not mean that one in the future won't jam the gear on extension.

It might be worth a visual inspection by a marshaller or even crew prior to departure in suspect areas that no one is contained in the wheel well.
After taxi clearance its unlikely that someone would run across the apron with a tug / marshaller in front who would view proceedings?

[Stan Woolley]

petitb

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: France
Posts: 27
Poor buggers, hard nosed lot are'nt you!.

I couldn't agree more. They were, like us, exactly like us, sons and possibly fathers who deserve much more respect than they are being shown here. Most people here, me included, don't have a scoobie about life in the world outside the west. Amazing how one baby can be born into a life of unspeakable hardship in Africa and one can be born into the royal family in UK. What makes them so different ?

[Pace]

We have all the awful tragedies with the boat people and now some ignorant people thinking the nose wheel of a jet is no different to jumping into a container Lorry.

when they found the reality the fear and the torture they must have gone through in the nose of such a jet it is awful to think about.

You cannot blame them for seeking a better life in their situation we would probably do the same but everyone from these countries moving to the UK or other western developed countries is not the answer.

The answer has to be improving the situation in their own countries and that can only be done by a worldwide effort to bring trade to these countries. How you deal with the dictatorships cruelty and disrespect for their own people by some of the leaders is another and more difficult problem.

[gcal]

@Pace
I'm afraid it is likely that they did indeed get into the aircraft when it was moving.
If you read previous posts you will see that this type of thing is not uncommon.

The whole thing is sad, dreadfully sad, that people will risk their lives in this way; a risk that they may, or may not, know they are taking.

It is not a problem that is going to go away in a hurry either

[silvertate]

Altitude - Moderate Activity - Sitting Quietly
25 000 feet - 2 minutes - 3 minutes
28 000 feet - 1 minute - 1.5 minutes
30 000 feet - 45 seconds - 1.25 minutes
35 000 feet - 30 seconds - 45 seconds
40 000 feet - 18 seconds - 30 seconds
45,000 feet - ?? seconds - ?? seconds

None of this makes any sense from the training I received

Text book figures have a lot of latitude, as they cater for the very average person trying to do complex calculations. If you are super-fit, used to high altitude, and merely sleeping, you can go much higher. I spent three days at 21,000 ft, with no oxy at all, and doing some hard hiking (although I had to stop every 100m).

The real problem is temperature. The wheels might keep you warm for a while, and the warm fuel likewise for a while, but I imagine that the center section gets quite cold after a few hours.

[silvertate]

We have all the awful tragedies with the boat people and now some ignorant people thinking the nose wheel of a jet is no different to jumping into a container Lorry.

You cannot blame them for seeking a better life in their situation we would probably do the same but everyone from these countries moving to the UK or other western developed countries is not the answer.

It is nothing new. They were dropping out of DC-8s in the '70s.

The main problem is modern liberal politicians giving hope to boat people and wheel-well people. If they knew that every attempt resulted in an immediate return back home they would not bother to try. But if there is a small hope, they will be queueing up to try.

So all these deaths are directly caused by our limp politicians, and the blood of thousands is on their hands.

[Una Due Tfc]

Which would get you first, hypoxia or hypothermia?

[Above The Clouds]

sb_ sfo
Your outfit got a lot of spare gear doors in stock?

Why would we, you would of course reduce to VLE/VLO, MLE/MLO first before operating the gear

[Pace]

Una due TFc

Altitude - Moderate Activity - Sitting Quietly
25 000 feet - 2 minutes - 3 minutes
28 000 feet - 1 minute - 1.5 minutes
30 000 feet - 45 seconds - 1.25 minutes
35 000 feet - 30 seconds - 45 seconds
40 000 feet - 18 seconds - 30 seconds
45,000 feet - ?? seconds - ?? seconds

These are the quoted figures and close to what we are taught for depressurisation
A private jet flying a celebrity Golfer had a rapid depressurisation and was discovered flying on autopilot by fighter jets who went up to check the aircraft out after no response from the crew.

All the crew and PAX who would have all been of differing fitness levels were dead.

We know this Passenger jet was flying at an average of FL350 and the average temperature was -55. The flight time was 8 hrs. The temperature in the wheel well would have been higher than -55 maybe -30 to 35?

i brought a private jet back from Cypress to the UK with a failed heating system to the maintenance unit. We aimed to fly at 18000 all the way in warmer air but were forced up to FL340 by a huge wall of CBS over Greece and Croatia

The outside temperature was minus 50 and with no heating the temperature inside the cabin dropped to minus 20C not minus 50C

it got so cold especially around the floor area I had to fly crossed legged with my feet on the pilot seat and could not feel my feet. We could have elected to use unfiltered air from the jet engines to heat the cabin but instead diverted into LJLJ to thaw out and then set off again at FL 180 We had no PAX. So my guess the temperature in the wheel well would be around -30 to -35 c with an outside temp of =50 to -55C.

Even if you double those survival times printed above for a super fit guy that gives him 1 minute to 1 minute 30 seconds of consciousness.

This flight was 8 hours !

i am sorry but either the figures used for ATPL training are massively inaccurate or something does not add up.

Maybe the extreme cold extended his life period with minimal oxygen ??

I know a child was saved after falling through ice and had been underwater for an hour before being rescued.

This was because of the extreme cold which had slowed the body system right down to a level where the child survived on negligible oxygen.

So if anything the extreme cold would have kept the person alive the lack of oxygen killing him. It is also known with extreme brain damage that reducing the core body temperature allows the brain to recover while the body system is on snail pace and a cometic state. Normal body core temperatures would mean rapid death.

i am not medically qualified but remember reading that the normal heart rate of 70 BPM with reduced core body temperatures will drop to 5 to 10 BPM so it would be the extreme cold which would extend life on minimal oxygen.

Maybe someone medically qualified can comment?

And no I don't recommend anyone flying a jet with no heating it was hell But then I have done some crazy stuff

[parabellum]

Supposedly it is for 'ice blocks' but I've been told by our station manager that it was instituted years ago after several stowaways were dropped on densely populated areas under the approach path as the gear came down.

We were told it was for ice, (1992), after a large lump of blue coloured ice fell through the roof of an old lady's house. That was a news story at the time complete with pictures of old lady/ice block/hole in roof! I think the theory was that lowering the gear introduced some vibration that might shake the ice off, but the bodies in the wheel well also seems a very likely reason too.

[NSEU]

Many jets have tire temperature displays. My recolllection is that the tires typically are not below 0 Celsius during cruise so they might be adding a slight temperature modulating effect to the wheel well temperature.

Are you sure you don't mean brake temperature?

On Boeings these are shown as a 0~9 scale. On one aircraft type, "0" represents 176C or less (including minus zero C values). I recall that, initially, heat from the wheels may be a danger to stowaways, but this effect won't last long. The wheel well doors are not exactly insulated and seals are usually less than perfect.

I'd be interested to know if TAT or SAT would be more indicative of temperatures in the wheel wells.

Some wheel wells may have an extremely hot, uninsulated APU bleed duct running through them, but the APU won't be running for long after takeoff. Once the APU is off, the APU bleed duct valves will close, and there will be no hot airflow going through the wheel well duct. These ducts are probably more likely to injure the stowaway than protect him/her.

Comparing temperatures in the cabin with loss of airconditioning/pressurisation (due to pack failure) to temperatures in the wheel wells is probably not a good idea. The cabin is well insulated and full of heat generating devices: lights, electronics and, of course, people. People are natural heat generators.