Airline pilots 'buckling under unacceptable pressures'?
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The present working conditions of pilots will continue and get worse until there is a shortage of pilots so severe that the airlines can't fly there aircraft or the lawyers find some way of making money out of pilot fatigue cases.
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RAT 5 & fireflybob ,
yep, been there done that too. Total and utter tosh, and like you, I was astonished at both who was accepted, & the excellent candidates (not including myself here ) that were dismissed out of hand.
It was a great money spinner for some folk though, and every few years a new iteration of it springs up & becomes the "gold standard" of selection procedures.
Totally totally meaningless, & they end up with the same spectrum of aces & turkeys as would be the case had they just picked names out of a hat at random.
yep, been there done that too. Total and utter tosh, and like you, I was astonished at both who was accepted, & the excellent candidates (not including myself here ) that were dismissed out of hand.
It was a great money spinner for some folk though, and every few years a new iteration of it springs up & becomes the "gold standard" of selection procedures.
Totally totally meaningless, & they end up with the same spectrum of aces & turkeys as would be the case had they just picked names out of a hat at random.
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Guys, talking about it won't change anything.
If you don't like it, then leave!
I didn't like it, so I left the airline and now fly very much more happily and very much better remunerated in a different way.
Those who say that they can't don't have my sympathy at all. There are plenty of flying jobs around outside the airlines for actual pilots. You know, pilots like what the word pilot used to mean....?
The only people who can't find work outside the airlines are the magenta line followers, who frankly are the problem in the first place...
If you don't like it, then leave!
I didn't like it, so I left the airline and now fly very much more happily and very much better remunerated in a different way.
Those who say that they can't don't have my sympathy at all. There are plenty of flying jobs around outside the airlines for actual pilots. You know, pilots like what the word pilot used to mean....?
The only people who can't find work outside the airlines are the magenta line followers, who frankly are the problem in the first place...
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The present working conditions of pilots will continue and get worse until there is a shortage of pilots so severe that the airlines can't fly there aircraft or the lawyers find some way of making money out of pilot fatigue cases.
What Teneriffe did for pushing the need for increased CRM awareness, is unfortunately also needed for fatigue and commercial pressure.
Any volunteers?
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Well written.
What you see ongoing is the result of the fall of the Berlin wall. Unregulated, untamed ruthless capitalism just as the lobby wanted it. Freedom? Yeah the freedom of few to screw the multitudes digitally brainwashed and queuing hours to buy a phone. It will not work out and eventually something will happen. "Managers" are nowadays just managing their wallet, often incompetent imbeciles. To save on crew that account to 10-15% of costs its outright stupid. Time to fight back starting with IATA.
What you see ongoing is the result of the fall of the Berlin wall. Unregulated, untamed ruthless capitalism just as the lobby wanted it. Freedom? Yeah the freedom of few to screw the multitudes digitally brainwashed and queuing hours to buy a phone. It will not work out and eventually something will happen. "Managers" are nowadays just managing their wallet, often incompetent imbeciles. To save on crew that account to 10-15% of costs its outright stupid. Time to fight back starting with IATA.
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Unregulated capitalism
"Well written.
What you see ongoing is the result of the fall of the Berlin wall. Unregulated, untamed ruthless capitalism just as the lobby wanted it. Freedom? Yeah the freedom of few to screw the multitudes digitally brainwashed and queuing hours to buy a phone. It will not work out and eventually something will happen. "Managers" are nowadays just managing their wallet, often incompetent imbeciles. To save on crew that account to 10-15% of costs its outright stupid. Time to fight back starting with IATA. "
Totally agree. We must stop the McDonaldisation of societies which is basically the LowCo model on our entire lives. Temporary contracts, zero hours contracts, no workers' rights, Unions demonization and disappearance, etc...excellent trend for the few greedy profit makers at the top, who represent <1% of society, total disaster for the vast majority of the remaining hard-working human beings.
A correction is needed. Urgently.
But how? Governments and Unions seem also part of this suicidal game.
What you see ongoing is the result of the fall of the Berlin wall. Unregulated, untamed ruthless capitalism just as the lobby wanted it. Freedom? Yeah the freedom of few to screw the multitudes digitally brainwashed and queuing hours to buy a phone. It will not work out and eventually something will happen. "Managers" are nowadays just managing their wallet, often incompetent imbeciles. To save on crew that account to 10-15% of costs its outright stupid. Time to fight back starting with IATA. "
Totally agree. We must stop the McDonaldisation of societies which is basically the LowCo model on our entire lives. Temporary contracts, zero hours contracts, no workers' rights, Unions demonization and disappearance, etc...excellent trend for the few greedy profit makers at the top, who represent <1% of society, total disaster for the vast majority of the remaining hard-working human beings.
A correction is needed. Urgently.
But how? Governments and Unions seem also part of this suicidal game.
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and as you pointed out it ain't just airlines going to pot
A "global" pilot union in already in place, aka IFALPA. Not very strong...
Being a pilot boils down to a McJob for a McAirline, flying McPassengers around the McGlobe, and being paid McMoney. Enjoy your McFlight!
Being a pilot boils down to a McJob for a McAirline, flying McPassengers around the McGlobe, and being paid McMoney. Enjoy your McFlight!
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Has anyone tried sending the link to this thread to their elected representative, if you live in a 'democracy', and if so what was their
response? I'm not expecting a British MP for example, to read it all, but
the UK taxpayers are paying their expenses to employ researchers/assistants, so failure to get some sort of informed response makes them as guilty as tthe corporate sharks.
How many of you have checked if your representative actually voted, and which way, on the topic of FTLs? I did with my UK MP and found out he had failed to vote, though his 'patch' includes London Gatwick airport and surroundings. When I challenged him with this, I received the usual waffle that the govt had found nothing of concern with the new proposed EASA rules and therefore everything was good and proper.
I will be e-mailing him with the link to this thread, but I don't hold much hope for a sympathetic reply, as he is a governing party whip and therefore has to toe the party line. However, if all pilots concerned with the deteriorating working conditions hassled their elected reps with
this issue, it may provoke some sort of reaction?
response? I'm not expecting a British MP for example, to read it all, but
the UK taxpayers are paying their expenses to employ researchers/assistants, so failure to get some sort of informed response makes them as guilty as tthe corporate sharks.
How many of you have checked if your representative actually voted, and which way, on the topic of FTLs? I did with my UK MP and found out he had failed to vote, though his 'patch' includes London Gatwick airport and surroundings. When I challenged him with this, I received the usual waffle that the govt had found nothing of concern with the new proposed EASA rules and therefore everything was good and proper.
I will be e-mailing him with the link to this thread, but I don't hold much hope for a sympathetic reply, as he is a governing party whip and therefore has to toe the party line. However, if all pilots concerned with the deteriorating working conditions hassled their elected reps with
this issue, it may provoke some sort of reaction?
BARKINGMIND
I will be e-mailing him with the link to this thread, but I don't hold much hope for a sympathetic reply, as he is a governing party whip and therefore has to toe the party line. However, if all pilots concerned with the deteriorating working conditions hassled their elected reps with this issue, it may provoke some sort of reaction?
I will be e-mailing him with the link to this thread, but I don't hold much hope for a sympathetic reply, as he is a governing party whip and therefore has to toe the party line. However, if all pilots concerned with the deteriorating working conditions hassled their elected reps with this issue, it may provoke some sort of reaction?
If the system hurts you, you have to be ready to hurt the system.
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I see the "pilot union" increasingly being the "responsible body" to try and reverse the downward trend. The regulators are giving more "self regulation" to the airlines, and the politicians, who can influence change in law, and hence the regulations, are not going to pick up this ball and run until a disaster occurs on their patch.
I'm going to read a book by Steve Hilton - "More Human". Our capitalist system needs an overhaul, and we need to put people higher on the list of corporate priorities. This guy seems to have some suggestions worth looking into.
I'm going to read a book by Steve Hilton - "More Human". Our capitalist system needs an overhaul, and we need to put people higher on the list of corporate priorities. This guy seems to have some suggestions worth looking into.
Last edited by Mowgli; 26th May 2015 at 10:42.
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What I find revealing is that a group of "high earners" myself included are getting more vocal with regard to corporate greed and social responsibility.
Europe has followed this drip down wealth model, which quite frankly doesn't work. We need to financially empower the middle classes to create the tax wealth that funds a social and fairer society. Not a scrounged society tho! Jeez I'm sounding slightly left, but without this tax income the government can only cut slash and burn. For sure the minted millionaires and billionaires don't create the same benefit for society. Money needs to move to make the world go around, not sit in someone's Swiss account.
Europe has followed this drip down wealth model, which quite frankly doesn't work. We need to financially empower the middle classes to create the tax wealth that funds a social and fairer society. Not a scrounged society tho! Jeez I'm sounding slightly left, but without this tax income the government can only cut slash and burn. For sure the minted millionaires and billionaires don't create the same benefit for society. Money needs to move to make the world go around, not sit in someone's Swiss account.
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For sure the minted millionaires and billionaires don't create the same benefit for society. Money needs to move to make the world go around, not sit in someone's Swiss account.
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Maybe I was be facetious
But for sure it doesn't all get spent or re invested. That's why they get so Mardey at inheritance tax. Oh hold on, no they don't, they tie it up in a trust fund. Much more tax efficient.
But for sure it doesn't all get spent or re invested. That's why they get so Mardey at inheritance tax. Oh hold on, no they don't, they tie it up in a trust fund. Much more tax efficient.
Last edited by Deep and fast; 28th May 2015 at 08:15.
Air Transport World story today..
This may have been picked up already in another thread but may be relevant here as well.... ATW story this morning.
"The US FAA said it is working with the commercial aviation and medical
communities to study the emotional and mental health of US commercial pilots. The joint FAA and industry group - known as the Commercial Aviation Safety Team (CAST)—recommended the study based on the disappearance of Malaysia Aii-lines flight MH370, a Boeing 777, which disappeared March 8, 2014 while on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people aboard, and the March 24, 2015 crash of a Germanwings Airbus A320 into the Southern French Alps while on a scheduled flight from Barcelona to Diisseldorf, killing all 150 people on board. The investigation revealed the co-pilot intentionally downed the aircraft.
The Pilot Fitness Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) will provide FAA with
recommendations within six months. The group will include US and international government and industry aviation experts, including a working group of medical professionals who specialize in aerospace medicine.
According to FAA, US pilots undergo robust medical screening, but recent accidents in other parts of the world prompted FAA to take a new look at the important issue of pilot fitness.
"The ARC will examine issues including the awareness and reporting of emotional and mental health issues, the methods used to evaluate pilot emotional and mental health, and barriers to reporting such issues.
"Based on the group's recommendations, the FAA may consider changes to medical methods, aircraft design, policies and procedures, pilot training and testing, training for Aerospace Medical Examiners, or potential actions that may be taken by professional, airline, or union groups. The ARC's meetings will not be open to the public," FAA said in a statement.
Federal Aviation Regulations outline the medical requirements for pilots. US airline pilots undergo a medical exam with an FAA-approved physician every six or twelve months depending on the pilot's age."
"The US FAA said it is working with the commercial aviation and medical
communities to study the emotional and mental health of US commercial pilots. The joint FAA and industry group - known as the Commercial Aviation Safety Team (CAST)—recommended the study based on the disappearance of Malaysia Aii-lines flight MH370, a Boeing 777, which disappeared March 8, 2014 while on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people aboard, and the March 24, 2015 crash of a Germanwings Airbus A320 into the Southern French Alps while on a scheduled flight from Barcelona to Diisseldorf, killing all 150 people on board. The investigation revealed the co-pilot intentionally downed the aircraft.
The Pilot Fitness Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) will provide FAA with
recommendations within six months. The group will include US and international government and industry aviation experts, including a working group of medical professionals who specialize in aerospace medicine.
According to FAA, US pilots undergo robust medical screening, but recent accidents in other parts of the world prompted FAA to take a new look at the important issue of pilot fitness.
"The ARC will examine issues including the awareness and reporting of emotional and mental health issues, the methods used to evaluate pilot emotional and mental health, and barriers to reporting such issues.
"Based on the group's recommendations, the FAA may consider changes to medical methods, aircraft design, policies and procedures, pilot training and testing, training for Aerospace Medical Examiners, or potential actions that may be taken by professional, airline, or union groups. The ARC's meetings will not be open to the public," FAA said in a statement.
Federal Aviation Regulations outline the medical requirements for pilots. US airline pilots undergo a medical exam with an FAA-approved physician every six or twelve months depending on the pilot's age."