Virgin landing gear incident LGW!

[RAT 5]

Posted by 36050100z; One thing I was mildly surprised about was how long after landing the engines appear (from the head-on footage) to have been kept running after coming to a stop.

I've just watched the video and ask the wondered the same. I don't think this question was ever answered. Another observation was how long it was from the full-stop to the arrival of the 1st fire truck at the a/c. It was many seconds, yet they were all in position. Just curious.

[NSEU]

That isn't necessary and may just lead to an accidental fuel starvation thus giving you a whole new set of problems to work through.

Not to mention lateral control problems in the air. The aircraft starts letting you know there is an imbalance even with 2~3 tonnes difference between opposite tanks.

One thing I was mildly surprised about was how long after landing the engines appear (from the head-on footage) to have been kept running after coming to a stop.

Perhaps the absence of fire indications on the flight deck? Perhaps the flight crew thought along the lines that if they switched off the engines, they've committed themselves to a full scale evacuation in the immediate future, with: Cabin emergency light batteries running flat, loss of airconditioning (even on cold days, a full aircraft gets warm pretty quickly with all the doors closed), power to passenger address systems depleting, etc. With an evacuation by slides, you run the risk of injury to passengers.

The tower told them to look for cues from the fire service. In this case, does the fire service contact them on VHF or do they use some kind of hand signals?

[Tom!]

Fire service in the UK on 121.6 vhf

[Harolds]

NSEU: Run the APU?

[NSEU]

I did actually consider that. Is it wise to introduce another source of fire? (asked in a previous message)

The APU bleed duct does run through the opposite wheel well, but I believe part of the APU fuel line runs in the right hand wing gear well (ref AMM 28-24-04). I've never actually noticed it.

On APU shutdown, too, the APU has a tendency to dump a bit of fuel on the tarmac.

[SevenSeas]

Cover Up

Has anybody noticed that neither Flight International or Aviation Week carried this story in their magazines !! I wonder why ?

[Capt_Tech]

B747-300 Body Gear Landing

I have seen photos of ZS-SAS landing on only the Body Gears it was in the 1980's, Both Wing Gears did not come out for landing, the aircraft didn't look very stable looked like it was about to fall over and the shock struts were fully compressed but landing was perfect considering there was No Auto Landing Feature in the Auto pilot those days.

[Capt_Tech]

Aircraft accident and incident reporting

To report an accident it is mandatory, but incidents are first handled by the operators QA department where the decision is made whether to keep the incident "In House" or report it to the CAA and other.

[fireflybob]

To report an accident it is mandatory, but incidents are first handled by the operators QA department where the decision is made whether to keep the incident "In House" or report it to the CAA and other.

I thought the reporter of any MOR had the option of ticking the box for a copy to go to CAA notwithstanding any company protocol?

[spannersatcx]

The MM was followed, and actuator replaced iaw MM, however the procedure was lacking so if you are going to blame anyone blame Boeing.

[BOAC73]

Spanners,
How is the MM procedure lacking? Surely Virgin cannot be the first 744 operator to replace this actuator and expose the faulty procedure?

[BARKINGMAD]

Were the engines really running, or were the fans just windmilling in the breeze, as is normal and any heat haze from exhausts was residual?

[Airclues]

xavaar

I'm not sure that it is wise to reveal this information at this time. The press monitor these forums and cannot always be relied upon to report the facts. spannersatcx has a valid point, which I'm sure will be in the final (factual) report.

Capt Tech

have seen photos of ZS-SAS landing on only the Body Gears it was in the 1980's

In the 80's the procedure when one wing gear would not extend was to land on the body gear only. However, this was a complicated procedure which entailed disabling the No4 hydraulic system so Boeing changed the procedure so as to land on all available gear.

[spannersatcx]

Originally Posted by BOAC73

Spanners,
How is the MM procedure lacking? Surely Virgin cannot be the first 744 operator to replace this actuator and expose the faulty procedure?

have a look and see what is missing.

[bcgallacher]

BOAC - some years ago I found that the MM procedure for changing a landing gear component on the 747 was incorrect and brought Boeings attention to it. Remember that whoever wrote the manual did so before the aircraft entered service and the manuals will be amended over the years only if someone cares to inform Boeing of discrepancies.

[IcePack]

Yep a good tech would know the MM is wrong guess aviation engineers are slowly becoming fitters. Shame.

[vs69]

Glad you've got the case buttoned up there Columbo! Maybe when you see the facts when the report comes out you will understand a bit more about what led to things panning out the way they did, glad you werent in charge of the investigation.
For info no one was suspended.

[Flightmech]

It's common to find errors in the MM, IPC etc which is why companies have a publications change request system or equivalent to have them updated when they come to light. Typical of those not in the know to automatically point the finger at Virgin Engineering (and no I don't work for them)

[DaveReidUK]

While that's certainly true in my experience, it's strange nevertheless that an operation that must have been completed hundreds of times on a type/variant that's been in service for over 25 years appears not to be adequately documented in the MM.

[morton]

Icepack.
“Yep a good tech would know the MM is wrong guess aviation engineers are slowly becoming fitters. Shame”.

And sometimes they are not allowed to do what they think is right! See page 3 of the link.

https://www.chirp.co.uk/upload/docs/...ATFB%20113.pdf