Near collision over Sweden
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suspect from your post you have not flown any actual intercepts. Intercepting any target at high altitude and Mach is very difficult. It would be almost impossible if you did not have a huge thrust and speed advantage. Most intercepts are done from the forward quarter and it takes very careful coordination to time a intercept turn and join on a target cruising at .83 Mach. In most cases the interceptor is also climbing. It takes tremendous power to sustain a 3G turn at 35000 feet while climbing. Running down a target from behind in a jet only capable of .9 mach would take forever if you elected a stern conversion.
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sweden
Age: 47
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The reason Swedish agencies are concerned about this Russian military aircraft activity is, as stated, the pollitical implications. I am a bit surprised when F-16GUY seem to implicate that the Danish take this event lightly, I hope I misunderstood. It is serious business to have military equipment trawling around in busy airspace without alerting anyone. This is not only about aircraft safety. I do not know if Russian military planes have the ability to see our civilian jets without being seen themselves. I for sure hope they do because then the imminent danger to both aircrafts would be somewhat reduced. As someone said - a mid air collision with an A320 and some Ilyushin snooper would surely be portrayed as "evil Western countries deliberately taking out innocent Russians".
glendalegoon:
This would be an easy solution for the US, I am sure. I won't go into long discussions about it now, but due to our geographical position it isn't that easy for us Swedes. Sweden is not as big as the US, nor are we as dominant as the UK. We are not rich like Germany or stubbornly proud as France. Thus we just can't afford it because we're stuck between a rock and a hard place, politically.
Someone asked about Japan. I would like to know how the activity has been in Alaska these days. Anyone who knows?
glendalegoon:
Maybe its time Sweden put its neutrality behind it and choose up sides.
Someone asked about Japan. I would like to know how the activity has been in Alaska these days. Anyone who knows?
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sweden
Age: 47
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just found an article about the Russian ambassador in Denmark. According to his statement this whole incident never happened.
Article in Swedish: Ryske ambassadören: ?Svenskarna röker för mycket gräs? | Nyheter | Aftonbladet
Article in Danish: Ambassadør: »Lad være med at provokere den russiske bjørn« - Globalt | www.b.dk
From the Swedish article:
Translation:
Vanin suggest that the Swedish accusations [about the close flying aircraft] are part of an orchestrated campaign that tries to picture Russia as a very dangerous neighbour.
From the Danish article:
Translation:
"Every ATC on earth - Danish, Swedish, Polish, Balitc and so on, can see every plane in the air, regardless if they fly with the transponder on. They can see its height and speed and they know that military planes usually fly with the transponder off. Generally, military planes do not communicate with foreign *AAs. NATO flights doesn't communicate with Moscow to tell what they are up to. But we can see them on the radar all the time" says the Russian ambassador.
Article in Swedish: Ryske ambassadören: ?Svenskarna röker för mycket gräs? | Nyheter | Aftonbladet
Article in Danish: Ambassadør: »Lad være med at provokere den russiske bjørn« - Globalt | www.b.dk
From the Swedish article:
Vanin menar att de svenska anklagelserna i stället är en del av en välorkestrerad kampanj som försöker utmåla Ryssland som en väldigt farlig granne.
Vanin suggest that the Swedish accusations [about the close flying aircraft] are part of an orchestrated campaign that tries to picture Russia as a very dangerous neighbour.
From the Danish article:
»Flykontrollørerne på jorden – danske, svenske, polske, baltiske og så videre – kan se ethvert fly i luften, selv om det flyver med transponderen slået fra. De kan se dets højde og fart, og de ved, at militære fly som regel er i luften med transponderen slukket. Generelt kommunikerer militære fly ikke med fremmede luftfartsmyndigheder. NATOs fly kommunikerer jo heller ikke med Moskva og fortæller, hvad de foretager sig. Men vi kan se dem på radaren hele tiden,« siger den russiske ambassadør.
"Every ATC on earth - Danish, Swedish, Polish, Balitc and so on, can see every plane in the air, regardless if they fly with the transponder on. They can see its height and speed and they know that military planes usually fly with the transponder off. Generally, military planes do not communicate with foreign *AAs. NATO flights doesn't communicate with Moscow to tell what they are up to. But we can see them on the radar all the time" says the Russian ambassador.
Pegase Driver
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 73
Posts: 3,669
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Every ATC on earth - Danish, Swedish, Polish, Balitc and so on, can see every plane in the air, regardless if they fly with the transponder on. They can see its height and speed
That said, like in the previous case I think someone in Sweden is blowing this out of proportion in the media , also for a purpose.
MrSnuggles wrote
Tu-95MS Bear H were active off North America during the 8th December.
Sun News : Canadian fighter jets intercept two Russian bombers off the northwestern coast
I would like to know how the activity has been in Alaska these days. Anyone who knows?
OTTAWA - Two Canadian fighter jets intercepted Russian long-range bombers conducting a reconnaissance mission off Canada's northwestern coast Monday.
A defence official said two Russian Tu-95 Bear bombers flew into international airspace over the Beaufort Sea where two CF-18 Hornets "intercepted and visually identified" them.
A defence official said two Russian Tu-95 Bear bombers flew into international airspace over the Beaufort Sea where two CF-18 Hornets "intercepted and visually identified" them.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Not lost, but slightly uncertain of position.
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@MrSnuggles
You misunderstod. We take it very seriusly. Thats why we will scramble our QRA jets every time there is a non squawker and fly up along side of him. That is the best way to make him visible to the civies.
You misunderstod. We take it very seriusly. Thats why we will scramble our QRA jets every time there is a non squawker and fly up along side of him. That is the best way to make him visible to the civies.
The Tu-95s were also active around Guam on the 13th December.
Russian Nuclear Bombers Again Buzz Guam | Washington Free Beacon
Russian air force takes first modernised Tupolev bombers - 12/19/2014 - Flight Global
Two Tu-95 Bear H bombers made the flight around Guam, a key U.S. military hub in the western Pacific, on Dec. 13.
Russia’s air force has today received the first examples of a number of modernised strategic bombers – a Tu-160M and Tu-95MSs - following upgrade work performed by manufacturer Tupolev.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Deep concern
This incident is a reason for deep concern here in Poland.
Every such manoeuvre can end up deadly.
The best example is the recent accident in Germany.
In this case the business jet simulating passenger airliner
had just two pilots on board. Both of them died,
the fighter jet landed safely.
On 23 June 2014, a mid-air collision occurred over Olsberg, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany, during an exercise simulating the interception of a civilian airliner that was out of radio contact. One of the aircraft consequently crashed; both occupants died. The other aircraft landed safely.
2014 Olsberg mid-air collision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Every such manoeuvre can end up deadly.
The best example is the recent accident in Germany.
In this case the business jet simulating passenger airliner
had just two pilots on board. Both of them died,
the fighter jet landed safely.
On 23 June 2014, a mid-air collision occurred over Olsberg, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany, during an exercise simulating the interception of a civilian airliner that was out of radio contact. One of the aircraft consequently crashed; both occupants died. The other aircraft landed safely.
2014 Olsberg mid-air collision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The best example is the recent accident in Germany.
The thread is about an airliner being turned away by ATC from a potential conflict with an unidentified, transponder-less Russian.
That incident doesn't appear to have much, if anything, in common with a practice interception that went wrong.
"I do not know if Russian military planes have the ability to see our civilian jets without being seen themselves."
the pilots probably wouldn't fly without that capability as I doubt they are suicidal
the pilots probably wouldn't fly without that capability as I doubt they are suicidal
